On 2/7/11 12:44 PM, Cullen Jennings wrote:
I was somewhat surprised to see this back in LC. I am still not aware of any
use case where this actually helps. I searched the IETF and WG lists for email
with the subject draft-ietf-sipcore-199 and I do not see a single email that
suggests there is support for this draft or the changes in it since the
previous LC.
This draft has no use that I understand how it helps - it is at best a very
limited optimization. The SIP standards is already too complicated with too
many extensions. I believe this draft makes SIP worse.Thought the draft
mandates that systems need to work even when the 199 are lost, I do not think
that is how the proponents of the work intent to use. I could be very wrong but
I presume that people intent to use to control middle boxes that control media
gates. It's broken for that but given that is not discussed in the draft, it's
hard to discuss how it is broken and what would be needed to fix it.
I do not support publishing this draft as standards track without actual WG
discussion on what the problem is this draft solves and if there is WG
consensus that problem is worth solving.
Cullen:
Speaking as a chair of SIPCORE, I would like to clarify a minor point.
Although it may not have been your intention, your message can be read
as implying that the SIPCORE chairs and/or the RAI area directors have
decided to move this document forward without community input.
For the benefit of those on this mailing list who were not involved in
the earlier stages of this document's progress: the initial community
input on whether to pursue the problem solved by this draft was taken at
the face-to-face SIPPING meeting during IETF 69. In particular, the
minutes for that meeting reflect: "Hum... in support of working on this
problem."
In April of 2008, the requirements document was handed over from SIPPING
to the SIP working group for working on actual protocol mechanism. (The
SIP change process at the time limited core protocol changes to the SIP
working group, requiring a change in venue).
Within the SIP working group, there were at least 316 message in 38
different threads on the protocol document over the one year period
spanning April 2008 to April 2009. This period included a two-week long
Working Group Last Call period in November of 2008.
In April of 2009, the RAI area underwent a reorganization, which
resulted in the conclusion of the SIP working group. As part of the
chartering of the SIPCORE working group, this document (and its
associated milestone) was transferred to the SIPCORE WG.
In January of 2010, the document entered IETF last call for the first
time. During IETF balloting, certain issues were identified by the IESG,
and balloted as a "DISCUSS" position. Over the course of 2010, the
document's author worked with the RAI ADs to address these issues to the
satisfaction of the currently seated IESG. As a result of these
conversations, a technical issue involving interaction with another SIP
extension mechanism was identified, and brought back to the SIPCORE
working group. A resolution to the issue was identified in early
December 2010, and a revised version of the document was produced to
reflect this resolution.
At every step of this process, the IETF, RAI, and SIP community has
opportunity for involvement. The volume of discussion demonstrates a
non-trivial interest in this mechanism.
/a
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