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Re: IETF Last Calls and Godwin-like rules

2012-02-17 10:41:59
potential "vote packers"  in voluntary consensus standards processes take heed 
of 1988 Supreme Court affirmation of lower court award of $3.8 million in 
damages (before trebling)  antitrust liability of  Allied Tube & Conduit Corp 
when packing NFPA process
http://www.gtwassociates.com/answers/Cases/AlliedTube.htm
Supreme Court  affirmed
In its complaint, plaintiff Indian Head, Inc. (Carlon) charged that defendant 
Allied Tube & Conduit Corp. had conspired to prevent inclusion of Carlon's 
product in industry standards. The jury found for Carlon, and awarded it $3.8 
million in damages (before trebling).
Allied Tube v. Indian Head, Inc. - 486 U.S. 492 (1988)
Before the meeting was held, petitioner, the Nation's largest producer of steel 
conduit, members of the steel industry, other steel conduit manufacturers, and 
independent sales agents collectively agreed to exclude respondent's product 
from the 1981 Code by packing the annual meeting with new Association members 
whose only function was to vote against respondent's proposal.

George T. Willingmyre, P.E.
President, GTW Associates
Spencerville, MD USA 20868
301.421.4138
www.gtwassociates.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SM" <sm(_at_)resistor(_dot_)net>
To: "John C Klensin" <john-ietf(_at_)jck(_dot_)com>
Cc: <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: IETF Last Calls and Godwin-like rules


Hi John,
At 06:04 16-02-2012, John C Klensin wrote:
A current Last Call has apparently brought on another of the
"please tell all your friends to send in supportive notes, even
if they don't say much of anything substantive" campaigns that
we see from time to time.  When those notes come from people who
do not routinely participate on IETF lists, they provide very
little real information unless we have suddenly taken up voting

Letter-writing campaigns occur every now and then.  As there isn't 
any vote count, the effort can end up in a diluted form.

individual and +1" does not.   Sadly, such endorsements,
especially from people who are not active IETF participants, add
to the noise and might prevent someone who was still genuinely
trying to understand the pros and cons (presumably including all
of the IESG) from seeing a new and substantive argument, no
matter how well-grounded.

Last year, someone discussed about how a "+1" could be read and some 
people were offended.   Maybe authors should be given the choice to 
have their proposal evaluated by counting the votes or to have the 
evaluation which is based on substantive comments.  Nobody would be 
offended then.

Regards,
-sm 

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