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Re: Content-free Last Call comments

2013-06-10 16:52:35
better than saying "I have not read the document but I support publication"

I do not see all that much help in having someone list reasons they support 
publication unless
there is some particularly wonderful feature or the prose is particularly clear

the reverse is not the case, I think there is real value in someone saying in 
detail why the do not support
publication of a document

Scott

On Jun 10, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Pete Resnick 
<presnick(_at_)qti(_dot_)qualcomm(_dot_)com> wrote:

Russ, our IAB chair and former IETF chair, just sent a message to the IETF 
list regarding a Last Call on draft-ietf-pkix-est. Here is the entire 
contents of his message, save quoting the whole Last Call request:

On 6/10/13 1:45 PM, Russ Housley wrote:
I have read the document, I a support publication on the standards track.

Russ

A month ago, we had another very senior member of the community post just 
such a message (in that case directly to the IESG) in response to a different 
Last Call. I took that senior member of the community to task for it. But 
apparently Russ either disagrees with my complaint or didn't notice that 
discussion on the IESG list, so I think it's worth airing here in public:

A statement such as the above is almost entirely useless to me as an IESG 
member trying to determine consensus. It is content-free.

We don't vote in the IETF, so a statement of support without a reason is 
meaningless. We should not be encouraging folks to send such things, and 
having the IAB chair do so is encouraging bad behavior. Had I not known Russ 
and his particular expertise, I would have no reason to take it into 
consideration *at all*. We should not have to determine the reputation of the 
poster to determine the weight of the message. Even given my background 
knowledge of who Russ is, I cannot tell from that message which one of the 
following Russ is saying:

- This document precisely describes a protocol of which I have been an 
implementer, and I was able to independently develop an interoperable 
implementation from the document.
- This document is about a technology with which I have familiarity and I 
have reviewed the technical details. It's fine.
- I've seen objection X to the document and I think the objection is 
incorrect for such-and-so reasons.
- My company has a vested interest in this technology becoming a standard, 
and even though I know nothing about it, I support it becoming a standards 
track document.
- My Aunt Gertrude is the document editor and she said that she needs 
statements of support, so here I am.
- I have a running wager on when we're going to reach RFC 7000 and I want to 
increase my odds of winning.

I take it I am supposed to presume from my friendship and knowledge of Russ 
that one of the first three is true and that the last three are not. (Well, 
maybe the last one might be true.) But if instead of from "Russ Housely", the 
message was from "Foo Bar", I would have absolutely no way to distinguish 
among the above.

I think we should stop with these one-line statements of support. They don't 
add anything to the consensus call. I'm disappointed that Russ contributed to 
this pattern.

Other opinions?

pr

-- 
Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478