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RE: Gen-ART LC Review of draft-thornburgh-adobe-rtmfp-07

2013-06-26 16:09:52
hi Ben. comment inline.

From: Ben Campbell [mailto:ben(_at_)nostrum(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 1:04 PM

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the continued responses. A few more comments inline. I deleted 
sections that did not seem
to need further comment. In summary, all of my concerns are resolved except 
for the crypto profile
question.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jun 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Michael Thornburgh 
<mthornbu(_at_)adobe(_dot_)com> wrote:

[...]

yes, endpoints need a common cryptography profile to interoperate.  there 
is no repository for
crypto profile documentation at this time. currently, there is one defined 
cryptography profile
(the
one used for Flash communication) that is not publicly documented, because 
i do not yet have
permission to publish it.  i (meaning me personally) hope that a memo 
documenting the
crypto/application profile for Flash communication (as being a widely 
deployed and used profile for
RTMFP) would also be published someday as an I-D and hopefully an 
Informational RFC.

I understand the issue about permission to publish, but does this document 
serve its purpose until
you
are ready to publish the crypto profile? Ideally they would be published 
together and this document
would reference that one. Do I infer correctly that there is no way 
someone could create an
implementation that interops with Adobe products based on the documents 
available at this time?

additional documentation is needed to interoperate (at the application 
layer) with the Adobe
products that implement RTMFP. i hope that the successful publication of this 
memo will help me in
getting the necessary approval to publish the higher layer details of Adobe's 
RTMFP ecosystem.

the situation is analogous to having published TCP, but there's a lot more 
you need to know to talk
to a web server with HTTPS (like TLS and HTTP).  it's still useful to know 
how TCP works, and plenty
more to do with it than talk to web servers.

I don't think that's a fair analogy. I can use TCP for many purposes other 
than talking to web
servers. It can even be useful all itself. But if I understand correctly, you 
can't expect to use
RTMFP _at_all_ until you publish they crypto-profile(s). Is that correct? If 
so, a better analogy
would be to publish TLS without any published cryptosuites.

If I am correct on the inability to use the protocol at all without more 
documentation that does not
currently exist, then I think it would be reasonable to put a clearly worded 
assertion to that effect
early in the draft, along with a comment that you intend to publish at least 
one crypto profile in the
future. (Perhaps an applicability statement would be helpful here.)

interoperating with the Flash ecosystem requires additional documentation. i 
agree that a better analogy is publishing TLS without any published 
cryptosuites.

using RTMFP requires _a_ cryptography profile. this memo describes the required 
semantics of a cryptography profile.  the first bullet of Section 1.1 "Design 
Highlights" (which occurs on the first page after the TOC), Section 2.2.3 
"Encryption", and the first paragraph of the Security Considerations section 
all indicate that this protocol defines a general framework for security, and 
that the application designer chooses/defines the algorithms and data formats 
to be used within that framework.  an application designer could, using only 
this memo (and knowledge of security and cryptography principles), define her 
own cryptography profile suitable for her application of RTMFP, and create a 
correct and useful RTMFP application.

since i don't yet have permission, i can't make a commitment in this memo that 
Adobe will (or intends to) publicly document any additional layers of the 
RTMFP-in-Flash ecosystem.  just for extra clarification: it is my *personal* 
hope that i will be able to do so in the future.

[...]

thanks!

-michael thornburgh

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