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RE: [mpls] Last Call: <draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp-04.txt> (Encapsulating MPLS in UDP) to Proposed Standard

2014-01-13 09:07:42
Lars, Scott and all,

First, a piece of history.

Congestion control considerations have been a major point of contention between 
the (then) leadership of the Transport Area and the PWE3 WG (that has started 
in the Transport Area, then migrated to Internet Area and finally arrived to 
the Routing Area).  A congestion control framework document is still listed as 
one of the goals of this WG even if the target date has passed and the draft 
that was supposed to deal with the subject 
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-congestion-frmwk) has expired 
almost 4 years ago.

TDM PWs which, for historical reasons, have always included encapsulations over 
UDP/IP, have been one of the focal points of this contention with DISCUSS by 
one of the then Transport Area directors in the process of the IESG approval of 
the first of these documents. Eventually, this contention has been resolved by 
adding a dedicated Congestion Control section to RFC 4553. This section 
introduced several guards against congestion being created by excessive 
deployment of TDM PWs and provided specific guidelines for  implementing a 
congestion prevention mechanism (specific to TDM PWs). 

Going back to the draft in question...

Encapsulating  MPLS in UDP looks to me like a far-going extension of running 
TDM PWs over UDP/IP. The main differences, as I see them, are:

- General MPLS-in-UDP flows can be "BW-greedy" while TDM PWs are not
- Congestion detection for these flows by the encapsulation endpoints 
(presumably called "applications using MPLS/UDP encapsulation" in the ) is much 
more problematic, nor is it clear to me, how backpressure  between these 
endpoints can operate even if congestion were detected

The text I have found in the Congestion Considerations section of the draft 
recognizes potential for congestion created by MPLS/UDP flows, and even calls 
for a mandatory additional congestion control mechanism. However, I could not 
find any guidelines (or even hints) that would help an implementer to create 
such a mechanism.  So I'd say that with regard to congestion control this draft 
does not meet the standard that has been expected (years ago from now) from the 
TDM PW drafts. 

My 2c,
       Sasha 
Email: Alexander(_dot_)Vainshtein(_at_)ecitele(_dot_)com
Mobile: 054-9266302

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of Eggert, Lars
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 8:23 AM
To: Scott Brim
Cc: mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; IETF
Subject: Re: [mpls] Last Call: <draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp-04.txt> (Encapsulating
MPLS in UDP) to Proposed Standard

Hi,

On 2014-1-10, at 22:32, Scott Brim <scott(_dot_)brim(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> 
wrote:
OK good point - so we invoke the end-to-end argument on MPLS's behalf.

look at it the other way. From the viewpoint of the rest of the net, you are 
an
application using UDP. Such applications need to follow a set of principles we
have IETF consensus on (RFC5405).

By encapsulating MPLS in UDP, you are changing the game. That traffic can
now appear on any Internet path, and not just inside provisioned networks.
Because of that, you need a mechanism to detect if you are causing
congestion, and a mechanism to react to it.

And it *is* a requirement on the encapsulator, because from the perspective
of the rest of the net, that is the application that generates the UDP 
traffic.

Lars

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