Re: OT was Re: [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (w

On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 05:50:45 PM Curtis Villamizar 
wrote:

> None of the equipment I have worked on (a while back) or
> the chips we evaluated recently had such a problem for
> IPv6 using only the top 64 bits for forwarding.  An
> argument was made in the early 2000s (by me and others)
> that if we allocated global routes only from the top 64
> bits all equipment at that time could forward at
> essentially the same rate as for IPv4.  The reaction
> from the IPv6 community was to completely throw away the
> bottom half of the address and make it the host part.
Agree.

> There are chips for which looking at a 32 bit prefix or a
> 64 bit prefix is done within the same pipeline and
> therefore takes the same amount of time.  Other chips
> which parallelize packet handling budget enough
> microengines to get the job done (only a part of which
> is the MPLS ILM or IP destination lookup).
Agree.

> Those line cards (and designs I was recently involved in)
> assume what has historically been called a BGP-free
> core.  Only the IGP routes are carried in the core.  BGP
> is mapped onto the IGP routes.  MPLS carries traffic
> across the core.  The core has no BGP routes and
> therefore needs a lot fewer entries and the ILM can be
> put into SRAM rather than use a TCAM and only a small
> set of IP routes needs to be supported.
Yes, but a "proper" BGP-free core is only true for IPv4.

If you are running a native IPv6 backbone, you can't support 
a BGP-free core for IPv6 (I'll just call it a BGPv6-free 
core, for typing brevity).

The only way you can have a BGPv6-free core is to do 6PE, 
and like I mentioned before, I don't like tunneled IPv6 (but 
lots of other providers do it, good for them).

> That is done to eliminate a need for large external DRAM
> or TCAM which itself and the SERDES needed to go off
> chip produces heat and requires power, board space, and
> cooling and therefore reduces density. Putting more
> simple filters in the core also helps increase density.
> It is more a power to operate and floor space per Gb/s
> issue.
All good and well, but where do my native BGPv6 routes go?

> For the most part IP/MPLS transport equipment seems to be
> going this way, though some people are stuck on MPLS-TP
> and trying to build a L2 overlay.
I think MPLS-TP is a way for the incumbents to migrate to 
Ethernet and still keep their ITU point-to-point-everything 
way of life that they know and love, but let's not digress 
:-)...

C have had the LSP forwarding engine for about three years 
now. I've never once considered buying it (and I always 
support new tech.), and most of my friends that I know 
closely haven't either. I have no doubt that some operators 
have bought it, but I have no empirical data to know how 
quickly it's flying off the shelves.

J's PTX and C's new NCS will continue this trend, but 
without implementing IPv6 control planes for MPLS (and the 
requisite data plane support), those of us that run native 
IPv6 will never have a BGPv6-free core.

So I can only afford line cards and forwarding engines that 
don't skimp on FIB, so I can sleep at night knowing my IPv6 
network won't fall over.

> If you go back to before 2000 at least one provider built
> a BGP-free core over Frame Relay, but FR itself soon
> died and the overlay didn't scale well.  Some providers
> wanted to do this over MPLS but the RSVP-TE restoration
> times were too long and the fallback to IP routing was
> still needed to make up for that.
Was before my time, but I can appreciate that :-).

> Unless you run a BGP-free core, whether IPv4 or IPv6. 
> Then you have plenty of FIB space.
Again, without 6PE, no-can-do for BGPv6.

> You put forwarding at full rate and cheaper line cards in
> the same paragraph with no mention of smaller FIB size
> due to eliminating the BGP routes.
Because without FIB's, where will the native BGPv6 routes 
go?

> OK ... so this is all interesting but I've lost the
> connection between this discussion and
> draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp.  Hence the OT in the subject. 
> Would you please remind me what that connection was.
I agree, this is quickly getting off topic, but the source 
was:

*****

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 04:59:41 AM 
l(_dot_)wood(_at_)surrey(_dot_)ac(_dot_)uk 
wrote:

> The MPLS assumption is that it's protected and checked by
> a strong link CRC like Ethernet, and checked/regenerated
> by stack processing between hops; here, in a path
> context, with zero UDP checksums MPLS has no checking at
> all.
Right, which is probably why routers today can count badly 
checksum'ed Ethernet frames, but don't have the equivalent 
for MPLS.

> I'm sorry, when was MPLS cheap?
Current-generation ASIC's have no problem forwarding MPLS 
frames at wire rate. One could go so far as to say that MPLS 
has allowed vendors to make cheaper line cards also because 
IP FIB's and traffic queues can be scaled down dramatically 
(not that I'd every buy such line cards, but...).

Mark.

*****

Cheers,

Mark.

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