I guess you’re not reading the “NATIVE” (as I indicated in all my messages on
this) speaker’s column, which is the people that is closer to the 100%
comprehension of a given language.
Regards,
Jordi
-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org> en nombre de Toerless Eckert
<tte(_at_)cs(_dot_)fau(_dot_)de>
Responder a: <tte(_at_)cs(_dot_)fau(_dot_)de>
Fecha: jueves, 20 de abril de 2017, 0:49
Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>
CC: "ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org" <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Asunto: Re: Update on feedback on US-based meetings, and IETF 102
Jordi,
None of the URLs seems to contradict that english is the most widely spoken
second language.
And you also did not make an argument why it would make more sense to
select the language
based on first language vs. second language speakers.
Also note that "second language" is just a good starting point. More
importantly,
you want to have some common language in a professional area. And try to
change that slower
than average human lifetime, so that professional experts are not rendered
useless because
they can not learn another language at higher age.
In computer/networking etc. this is english. That has mostly historical
reasons,
but IMHO its quite a good choice: It is easier to learn, and there is a
high tolerance
for even mediocre language proficiencies in countries that commonly use it.
To put it
into the original context of this thread: Only in the USA can you be
interrogated and
potentially thrown out of the country by an immigrations officer that
speaks the native
language worse than you!
Or you can just count the languages used in open source code comments on
the Internet ;-)
Cheers
Toerless
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:01:37AM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> The problem comes from non-being a native speaker, as definitively that
means that many times you ???translate??? from your mother tongue. And in this
case, it seems, according to many sources, English and Chinese is declining
across the time vs Spanish. Most of the sources state that Spanish is the 2nd
one right now, some indicate it is Hindi, but English is always after Spanish
(again, native speakers):
>
> https://www.tomedes.com/top-10-languages-natively-spoken.php
>
> http://www.vistawide.com/languages/top_30_languages.htm
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_demography
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
>
> The latest info from 2016, which I???ve found only in spanish, seems to
confirm the trend and in 2016 the censed number of native spanish speakers
raised to 472 millions, 567 as second language, which agains confirms Chinesse
being the first, Spanish the second (7,8% of total population).
>
> http://www.cervantes.es/imagenes/File/prensa/EspanolLenguaViva16.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: ietf <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org> en nombre de Toerless Eckert
<tte(_at_)cs(_dot_)fau(_dot_)de>
> Responder a: <tte(_at_)cs(_dot_)fau(_dot_)de>
> Fecha: martes, 18 de abril de 2017, 23:09
> Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>
> CC: "ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org" <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
> Asunto: Re: Update on feedback on US-based meetings, and IETF 102
>
> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 10:54:09PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> > This shows something that I believe most of the native English IETF
participants usually don???t realize when having discussion (I???m referring
here in general, also technical discussions) with non-native speakers, and how
difficult is for the others. Maybe we should switch to Chinese as the default
IETF language, or Spanish, as they have more speakers worldwide than English!
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
>
> According to that page, spanish does not have more speakers worldwide
than english, but
> rather the opposite. And IMHO, the relevant number is really just the
number of L2
> (second language) speakers, and thats lead by english, followed by
malay, french,
> mandarin, arabic, hindi, russian, urdu, swahili and then spanish!
>
> > I???m still believe that IAOC attitude is not justified at all, and
if we don???t have answers from them by next Monday, we should consider a
recall process. Hopefully is not the case.
>
> What do you think is the IAOC attitude ? All i read was very
noncommittal and "we
> still collect information".
>
> I do not even know what the metric for selection is. I hope it is not
to make the
> most vocal mailing list participants most happy. I would start with
excluding the least
> number of candidate participants excluded by travel policies, then
the lowest price for
> median particiants (flight, hotel, food) and then most convenient. I
think
> IAOC somehow takes these factors into account, but i can not remember
that they did send
> their most concrete data for these factors for various countries to
the mailing list.
>
> Cheers
> Toerless
>
>
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> >
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: ietf <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>; en nombre de JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ <jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>;
> > Responder a: < jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>;
> > Fecha: viernes, 14 de abril de 2017, 01:24
> > Para: <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>;
> > Asunto: Re: Update on feedback on US-based meetings, and IETF 102
> >
> > Well, for some countries what Trump said, has already been a fact,
for example the prohibition to have computers on board. Is not that the case?
> >
> > Whatever we want to decide, cancel SF or not, it may highly depend
on budget, we like it or not. And that means that we need answers:
> >
> > If we cancel San Francisco, how much that is going to cost to
the IETF for each of two planned meetings?
> >
> > Can we cancel the actual hotel contract considering the new US
situation? If not, has this been considered for new contracts to avoid this
problem?
> >
> > Otherwise there is any reason that can justify the lack of
transparency in this?
> >
> > The problem is so big for this community that I don???t even agree
that the IAOC should take the decision. It must be a collective one, especially
when the IAOC is demonstrating thru facts that they don???t care that we are
discussing and wasting our time without the minimum relevant data, this is
disrespectful and even more, not responding to emails since even since years
ago, shows lack of education
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **********************************************
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> >
> >
>
> --
> ---
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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> The IPv6 Company
>
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IPv4 is over
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The IPv6 Company
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that
any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
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