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Re: Update on feedback on US-based meetings, and IETF 102

2017-04-19 07:01:46
Hi Jordi.

I think a more pertinent question is how may of us can carry on a technical 
conversation in Spanish vs English vs Chinese.

It’s not enough to be able to order at a restaurant or tell a taxi driver where 
you want to go. I can do that and it’s probably true for many of our attendees 
from the US.  But I don’t speak it well enough to carry on a technical 
conversation. I would probably need Google translate if I wanted to write this 
message is Spanish.

I think on this criterion English wins out. Even if you count potential rather 
than current participants.

Yoav

On 19 Apr 2017, at 12:01, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ 
<jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es> wrote:

The problem comes from non-being a native speaker, as definitively that means 
that many times you “translate” from your mother tongue. And in this case, it 
seems, according to many sources, English and Chinese is declining across the 
time vs Spanish. Most of the sources state that Spanish is the 2nd one right 
now, some indicate it is Hindi, but English is always after Spanish (again, 
native speakers):

https://www.tomedes.com/top-10-languages-natively-spoken.php

http://www.vistawide.com/languages/top_30_languages.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_demography

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers

The latest info from 2016, which I’ve found only in spanish, seems to confirm 
the trend and in 2016 the censed number of native spanish speakers raised to 
472 millions, 567 as second language, which agains confirms Chinesse being 
the first, Spanish the second (7,8% of total population).

http://www.cervantes.es/imagenes/File/prensa/EspanolLenguaViva16.pdf

Regards,
Jordi


-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org> en nombre de Toerless Eckert 
<tte(_at_)cs(_dot_)fau(_dot_)de>
Responder a: <tte(_at_)cs(_dot_)fau(_dot_)de>
Fecha: martes, 18 de abril de 2017, 23:09
Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>
CC: "ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org" <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Asunto: Re: Update on feedback on US-based meetings, and IETF 102

   On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 10:54:09PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
This shows something that I believe most of the native English IETF 
participants usually don???t realize when having discussion (I???m referring 
here in general, also technical discussions) with non-native speakers, and 
how difficult is for the others. Maybe we should switch to Chinese as the 
default IETF language, or Spanish, as they have more speakers worldwide than 
English!

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers

   According to that page, spanish does not have more speakers worldwide than 
english, but
   rather the opposite. And IMHO, the relevant number is really just the 
number of L2
   (second language) speakers, and thats lead by english, followed by malay, 
french,
   mandarin, arabic, hindi, russian, urdu, swahili and then spanish!

I???m still believe that IAOC attitude is not justified at all, and if we 
don???t have answers from them by next Monday, we should consider a recall 
process. Hopefully is not the case.

   What do you think is the IAOC attitude ? All i read was very noncommittal 
and "we
   still collect information".

   I do not even know what the metric for selection is. I hope it is not to 
make the
   most vocal mailing list participants most happy. I would start with 
excluding the least
   number of candidate participants excluded by travel policies, then the 
lowest price for
   median particiants (flight, hotel, food) and then most convenient. I think
   IAOC somehow takes these factors into account, but i can not remember that 
they did send
   their most concrete data for these factors for various countries to the 
mailing list.

   Cheers
       Toerless


Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>; en nombre de JORDI PALET 
MARTINEZ <jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>;
Responder a: < jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>;
Fecha: viernes, 14 de abril de 2017, 01:24
Para: <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>;
Asunto: Re: Update on feedback on US-based meetings, and IETF 102

Well, for some countries what Trump said, has already been a fact, for 
example the prohibition to have computers on board. Is not that the case?

Whatever we want to decide, cancel SF or not, it may highly depend on 
budget, we like it or not. And that means that we need answers:

   If we cancel San Francisco, how much that is going to cost to the IETF 
for each of two planned meetings?

   Can we cancel the actual hotel contract considering the new US situation? 
If not, has this been considered for new contracts to avoid this problem?

   Otherwise there is any reason that can justify the lack of transparency 
in this?

The problem is so big for this community that I don???t even agree that the 
IAOC should take the decision. It must be a collective one, especially when 
the IAOC is demonstrating thru facts that they don???t care that we are 
discussing and wasting our time without the minimum relevant data, this is 
disrespectful and even more, not responding to emails since even since years 
ago, shows lack of education

Regards,
Jordi




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