Many thanks for the time to read and review this document!
Like Ruediger, I will let the shepherd, chairs, and AD weight in — but in the
meantime, I wanted to offer a couple of observations for consideration. Please
On Jun 28, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Pete Resnick
Reviewer: Pete Resnick
Review result: Not Ready
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Reviewer: Pete Resnick
Review Date: 2017-06-28
IETF LC End Date: 2017-06-30
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
Summary: Not Ready for publication as Informational, but might be Ready for
publication as Proposed Standard
This is an admittedly unusual review. I have read through the entire document,
and the technical work seems fine, but is well beyond my technical expertise,
so I can't really comment on the technical correctness. However, it is
absolutely clear to me that this is *not* a "use case" document at all
I agree with the assessment that this is not a “use-case” document (in a strict
or traditional sense); this document describes a deployment case and a solution
to a use case, using existing technology blocks. It does not define new
protocol nor (more importantly) creates interoperability considerations.
don't think it's appropriate as an Informational document.
Now, regarding the most appropriate intended status, I could personally argue
both sides, and frankly, I do not have a strong preference or concern either
The net of it is that this (informational/specification) document does not
create requirements for SPRING nodes, changes in SPRING, nor exposes
interoperability issues. It basically leverages as-is the underlying
capabilities created with SPRING. From that angle, Informational is a very
appropriate fit. On the other hand, I do not disagree with this document
specifying a system, and the play-of-words that results in standards-track — so
it is a spec for the path monitoring system, but provides information to the
network and to SPRING specs on how the new tech can be used.
Net-net, I see Informational but can understand your rationale.
In any case, what does concern me more is whether a potential change of
intended status would add significant delay and reset process timers on a
timeline that is already overstretched and a very slow progress…
This is clearly a
*specification* of a path monitoring system. It gives guidances as to
recommended, and optional parameters, and specifies how to use different
protocol pieces. It is at the very least what RFC 2026 refers to as an
"Applicability Statement (AS)" (see RFC 2026, sec. 3.2). It *might* be a BCP,
but it is not strictly giving "common guidelines for policies and operations"
(2026, sec. 5), so I don't really think that's right, and instead this should
be offered for Proposed Standard. Either way, I think Informational is not
correct. Importantly, I think there is a good likelihood that this document
not received the appropriate amount of review; people tend to ignore
Informational "use case" documents,
This, however, I think is an inappropriate extrapolation. Although the
shepherd, WG and chairs already considered the intended status, I think it is
important to re-think what’s best for this document in the context of the
merits, structure and goals. But justifying it not being informational because
“people tend to ignore […]” seems a red herring.
and there have been no Last Call comments
beyond Joel's RTG Area Review.
Within SPRING, this document dates the origins of the WG. It was presented in
many WGs numerous times and iterated through many versions (within three
filenames) as various reviews came in. I’d recommend you also go back and check
the timeline. I would not also make hard conclusions based on LC traffic.
Even in IESG review, an Informational document
only takes the sponsoring AD to approve; every other AD can summarily ignore
the document, or even ballot ABSTAIN, and the document will still be published
(though that does not normally happen). This document should have much more
than that level of review. I strongly recommend to the WG and AD that this
document be withdrawn as an Informational document and resubmitted for
Standard and have that level of review and scrutiny applied to it.
As I said, I am happy with either status and can see arguments both ways. I
would not object to a change.
However, personally, I do not see the need.
This document refers to RFC 4379, which has been obsoleted by RFC 8029. It
seems like the references should be updated.
Indeed. Done in -07 and -08.
Thanks again, Pete!
Carlos Pignataro, carlos(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com
“Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself sound