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Re: suspect mailers (was Re: restricted form)

2003-04-11 16:56:58
On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:12:05 -0700, PSE-L(_at_)mail(_dot_)professional(_dot_)org
(Professional Software Engineering) wrote:
=> I'm saddened that spammers choose to send me spam,

        I think we're all saddened, or perhaps aggravated, or
even enraged by those who send us all spam.  Having one of my
domains "joe-jobbed" recently makes me even more sensitive to it
(thousands and thousands of bounces back to us; bad guys using
bulletproof Brazilian hosting and sent using all sorts of open
relays <grrrrr>).

=> regardless of what tools 
=> they choose to do so with.  If the mailers they choose to use are a viable 
=> method to identify them with, then that's the way it is.

        I think the point I was moving towards was that *any*
tool which sends bulk mail therefore becomes a spam tool this
way.  There are, however, a few legitimate bulk mail uses for
folks who, like one of my clients, regularly email their dealer
network. Granted legitimate bulk mail is a miniscule part of
total bulk mail, but it does exist. These clients are heads and
shoulders above some of their manufacturers - who are still using
BCC lists and huge attachments <sigh>.

=> >of my clients have used this program as an easy and inexpensive
=> >Windoze based mailer for their legitimate newsletter mail lists.
=> I'm of the opinion that "legitimate" mail lists should be managed on a 
=> server, not from someone's windoze box.

        1) There are, surprisingly, Windoze based servers (though
the thought personally scares me); and,
        2) Some folks, like the client above, use the MailCast
tool to [responsibily] send only thru their legitimate ISP relay.

=> When the day comes that a secure SMTP protocol is put into place -

        God grant that this comes soon.

=> Currently, one may also contend with the fact that messages originating 
=> from a non-server windoze box (say, via dialup or broadband), the messages 
=> might also be rejected due to the IP appearing in DNSBLs, including the DUL 
=> (Dial-Up List).

        Indeed.

        It amazes me, from looking at those thousands of bounces
(and cute little automated "don't spam me" messages send back to
the "From" address [us]), it amazes me how many folks apparently
don't do any open relay checking.  All of it went thru open
relays all around the world.

=> Let's face it - the people _selling_ these direct mailing programs are 
=> selling them to spammers.  There may be legitimate use of the programs, but 
=> the largest market potential rests with people who want to send a message 
=> from a throwaway dialup account instead of having to manage a legitimate 
=> mail list on a server.

        MailCast is free (www.mindcast.com), and I know of at
least one legitiamte user who had no idea it was seen as a "Spam
Program" by an authorative source such as yourself [no disrepect
intended here].

=> >Can I ask how you assembled this list of mailers?
=> This matters how?

        Just curious, thanks for the follow-up.
 
=> I've made a particular point of noting in the past that some mailers do 
=> have legitimate users (FoxMail for instance, which isn't listed).

        Please note that I do not suggest that you change your
mind on MailCast.
 
=> Keep in mind that if you use additive scoring, you could simply assign a 
=> different weight to each of the known mailers - if a certain mailer is 
=> always used for spam, crank it way up, otherwise, assign it a lower score.

        While I do use this filtering (but not thru scoring), I
kind of think it's somewhat out of date as the spammers have
already pretty much adapted to it. I see a lot of randomized
x-mailer use.

=> I deal with adding a rule to file that list appropriatley.

        As do I, such as for this list (which has been recently
harvested by a bunch of Nigerians claiming banking problems).

=> I haven't had an urgent need to update it, so no, there'd be nothing notable.

        OK, thanks.
 
=> Keep in mind, I _do_not_ publish a package of spam filters - I have quite a 
=> few which I use and which work well for me, but I don't publish a 
=> package.  IIRC, the above information was provided in response to someone's 
=> query about a filter for known mailers.  Take it at face value.

        I read every one of your posts here in the list and save
many.  I've learned a lot from your terrific efforts here and I
appreciate your time and thought that you put into them.

=> nb - one of the clients is the MS client used for some Microsoft marketing 
=> junk.

        Thanks for the heads-up there. 

        Cheers,

        - Don

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