On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:12:05 -0700, PSE-L(_at_)mail(_dot_)professional(_dot_)org
(Professional Software Engineering) wrote:
=> I'm saddened that spammers choose to send me spam,
I think we're all saddened, or perhaps aggravated, or
even enraged by those who send us all spam. Having one of my
domains "joe-jobbed" recently makes me even more sensitive to it
(thousands and thousands of bounces back to us; bad guys using
bulletproof Brazilian hosting and sent using all sorts of open
relays <grrrrr>).
=> regardless of what tools
=> they choose to do so with. If the mailers they choose to use are a viable
=> method to identify them with, then that's the way it is.
I think the point I was moving towards was that *any*
tool which sends bulk mail therefore becomes a spam tool this
way. There are, however, a few legitimate bulk mail uses for
folks who, like one of my clients, regularly email their dealer
network. Granted legitimate bulk mail is a miniscule part of
total bulk mail, but it does exist. These clients are heads and
shoulders above some of their manufacturers - who are still using
BCC lists and huge attachments <sigh>.
=> >of my clients have used this program as an easy and inexpensive
=> >Windoze based mailer for their legitimate newsletter mail lists.
=> I'm of the opinion that "legitimate" mail lists should be managed on a
=> server, not from someone's windoze box.
1) There are, surprisingly, Windoze based servers (though
the thought personally scares me); and,
2) Some folks, like the client above, use the MailCast
tool to [responsibily] send only thru their legitimate ISP relay.
=> When the day comes that a secure SMTP protocol is put into place -
God grant that this comes soon.
=> Currently, one may also contend with the fact that messages originating
=> from a non-server windoze box (say, via dialup or broadband), the messages
=> might also be rejected due to the IP appearing in DNSBLs, including the DUL
=> (Dial-Up List).
Indeed.
It amazes me, from looking at those thousands of bounces
(and cute little automated "don't spam me" messages send back to
the "From" address [us]), it amazes me how many folks apparently
don't do any open relay checking. All of it went thru open
relays all around the world.
=> Let's face it - the people _selling_ these direct mailing programs are
=> selling them to spammers. There may be legitimate use of the programs, but
=> the largest market potential rests with people who want to send a message
=> from a throwaway dialup account instead of having to manage a legitimate
=> mail list on a server.
MailCast is free (www.mindcast.com), and I know of at
least one legitiamte user who had no idea it was seen as a "Spam
Program" by an authorative source such as yourself [no disrepect
intended here].
=> >Can I ask how you assembled this list of mailers?
=> This matters how?
Just curious, thanks for the follow-up.
=> I've made a particular point of noting in the past that some mailers do
=> have legitimate users (FoxMail for instance, which isn't listed).
Please note that I do not suggest that you change your
mind on MailCast.
=> Keep in mind that if you use additive scoring, you could simply assign a
=> different weight to each of the known mailers - if a certain mailer is
=> always used for spam, crank it way up, otherwise, assign it a lower score.
While I do use this filtering (but not thru scoring), I
kind of think it's somewhat out of date as the spammers have
already pretty much adapted to it. I see a lot of randomized
x-mailer use.
=> I deal with adding a rule to file that list appropriatley.
As do I, such as for this list (which has been recently
harvested by a bunch of Nigerians claiming banking problems).
=> I haven't had an urgent need to update it, so no, there'd be nothing notable.
OK, thanks.
=> Keep in mind, I _do_not_ publish a package of spam filters - I have quite a
=> few which I use and which work well for me, but I don't publish a
=> package. IIRC, the above information was provided in response to someone's
=> query about a filter for known mailers. Take it at face value.
I read every one of your posts here in the list and save
many. I've learned a lot from your terrific efforts here and I
appreciate your time and thought that you put into them.
=> nb - one of the clients is the MS client used for some Microsoft marketing
=> junk.
Thanks for the heads-up there.
Cheers,
- Don
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