Re: [xsl] Random UUID in pure XSLT?

I don't know how FP purists model this, but it seems to me that the content of 
a web page is a function of two things: the URL, and the time. So probably we 
should be treating unparsed-text() as if there is an implicit parameter 
timestamp() which is potentially different on each call; though since order of 
execution is unpredictable, forcing the calls to happen at different times 
still requires some sleight-of-hand.

Where are the theorists when we need them?

Michael Kay
Saxonica

> On 11 Nov 2020, at 22:03, Dimitre Novatchev dnovatchev(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com 
> <xsl-list-service(_at_)lists(_dot_)mulberrytech(_dot_)com> wrote:
>
> > According to the spec, unparsed-text() is deterministic, which means that 
> > two calls with the same argument should return the same result. You're 
> > relying on a Saxon non-conformance, I fear!
> It seems to me that tagging the function unparsed-text() as "deterministic" 
> was rather inaccurate... And definitely not useful, if we need hacks as 
> workarounds for its limitations...
>
> Generally, determinism can have meaning within a closed system, the system of 
> Internet Http resources is an open one.
>
> Thus, the Saxon non-conformance for me is a feature, not a bug!
>
> Cheers,
> Dimitre
>
>  
> According to the spec, unparsed-text() is deterministic, which means that two 
> calls with the same argument should return the same result. You're relying on 
> a Saxon non-conformance, I fear!
>
> Except that if you make the call in a loop, Saxon will probably loop-lift it, 
> thus becoming conformant and making your code deliver a stream of identical 
> UUIDs.
>
> You can probably get round it by using 
> unparsed-text("https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4 <https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4>?x=" 
> || position())
>
> Michael Kay
> Saxonica
>
> > On 11 Nov 2020, at 18:32, Dimitre Novatchev dnovatchev(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com 
> > <mailto:dnovatchev(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> 
> > <xsl-list-service(_at_)lists(_dot_)mulberrytech(_dot_)com 
> > <mailto:xsl-list-service(_at_)lists(_dot_)mulberrytech(_dot_)com>> wrote:
> >
> > >  how can I go about producing random UUIDs, in dozens or hundreds, inside 
> > > an XSLT pipeline, without extension functions in Saxon.
> > This is actually very easy and doesn't require the use of any extension 
> > functions:
> >
> > unparsed-text("https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4 <https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4>")
> >
> > or if you need N of them:
> >
> > for $i in 1 to $N
> >    return  unparsed-text("https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4 
> > <https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4>") 
> >
> >
> >
> > 😆
> >
> > HTH, Dimitre
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 8:36 AM Piez, Wendell A. (Fed) 
> > wendell(_dot_)piez(_at_)nist(_dot_)gov 
> > <mailto:wendell(_dot_)piez(_at_)nist(_dot_)gov> 
> > <xsl-list-service(_at_)lists(_dot_)mulberrytech(_dot_)com 
> > <mailto:xsl-list-service(_at_)lists(_dot_)mulberrytech(_dot_)com>> wrote:
> > XSL Friends –
> >
> >  
> >
> > Today I write from the day job, where I am researching the question of how 
> > can I go about producing random UUIDs, in dozens or hundreds, inside an XSLT 
> > pipeline, without extension functions in Saxon. The Java randomUUID() 
> > function works nicely when it’s available, but I need to distribute the 
> > capability for SaxonHE and eventually SaxonJS.
> >
> >  
> >
> > We do not have an available implementation of RFC 4122 v4 “random UUID” in 
> > pure XSLT do we, free to use (and study)? I know the functional nature of 
> > the language makes randomness, um, problematic (when isn’t it?), which 
> > sometimes means workarounds – that’s all fine. Indeed so would calling out 
> > to a web service if it is known to be reliable. I have thought about handing 
> > a list of UUIDs in at runtime, but as I said, there may sometimes be 
> > hundreds and perhaps thousands, which makes that approach seem a bit scary.
> >
> >  
> >
> > Any thoughts or perspective would be most welcome.
> >
> >  
> >
> > Thanks, Wendell
> >
> >  
> >
> >  
> >
> >  
> >
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> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cheers,
> > Dimitre Novatchev
> > ---------------------------------------
> > Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
> > ---------------------------------------
> > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk
> > -------------------------------------
> > Never fight an inanimate object
> > -------------------------------------
> > To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the
> > biggest mistake of all
> > ------------------------------------
> > Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.
> > -------------------------------------
> > You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what 
> > you're doing is work or play
> > -------------------------------------
> > To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep.
> > -------------------------------------
> > Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
> > -------------------------------------
> > Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write 
> > all patents, too? :)
> > -------------------------------------
> > Sanity is madness put to good use.
> > -------------------------------------
> > I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.
> >  
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>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Dimitre Novatchev
> ---------------------------------------
> Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
> ---------------------------------------
> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk
> -------------------------------------
> Never fight an inanimate object
> -------------------------------------
> To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the
> biggest mistake of all
> ------------------------------------
> Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.
> -------------------------------------
> You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what you're 
> doing is work or play
> -------------------------------------
> To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep.
> -------------------------------------
> Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
> -------------------------------------
> Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write 
> all patents, too? :)
> -------------------------------------
> Sanity is madness put to good use.
> -------------------------------------
> I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.
>  
> XSL-List info and archive <http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list>
> EasyUnsubscribe <http://lists.mulberrytech.com/unsub/xsl-list/293509> (by 
> email <>)
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