I second what Michael said.
It may be easy for somebody not involved to hit the delete key, and
it's reasonable to ask "How hard is it to hit the delete key". But
for people doing the work, who have to worry about whether to
respond or not, whether keeping silent will give everybody else the
wrong impression, whether this will derail the work again, and
whether to just give up... it's quite hard to just hit the delete
key. Our passion for our work is a strength in some ways but the
flip side is the risk of serious demoralization in this kind of
I approve of this escalation and think we should not set the bar so
high that no WG or DL can ever successfully send the message that a
On Jan 20, 2006, at 6:57 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-ietf(_at_)mit(_dot_)edu]
This is why I chose to give the necessary time to common sense to
in exposing their mistakes in a way they could forced to correct
them. The democratic method for that is work and filibustering.
Filibustering is not pleasant. But it permitted to obtain what users'
Excuse me? I am the IETF Language Tags reviewer, and the list in
question for discussion of RFC 3066 is there, basically, for *me*.
People propose tags, there is some discussion, and we process or
reject the proposals.
This is NOT the United States Senate and House of Representatives.
You may think that filibustering is normal and appreciated and
democratic. It is not. Morfin offers us nothing but bollocks, and
it interferes with me and my work and I have on more than one
occasion thought about resigning because of Morfin's poisonousness.
Now stop and think. I'm an expert professional with some reputation
who has earned a certain amount of respect for my expertise. I am
busy, too busy for bullshit, but happy enough to try to do a good
job on for instance RFC 3066.
So who do you want to be nice to? Hm? Whom are the rules
protecting? What is your goal?
As such, I agree that we need to adopt a strategy that prevents
disrupting our processes excessively.
I'd first ask why repeated 30-day suspensions are ineffective.
Because every time the 30 days is up this crap starts all over and
I have to waste time writing an e-mail to Harald saying "Ban him."
I am, you will note, wasting time now dealing with Morfin, because
I have to write to you about it.
How would a six month suspension be insufficient? Do we really
need an unlimited suspension to get work done?
It would make me happier. You may not care about that.
Finally, if we somehow all convince ourselves that asking chairs
suspending Jefsey every six months is unacceptable then what about
way to suspend Jefsey from langtags related issues but not other
Whatever it takes.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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