Hm, I almost forgot before what kind of group this is. You know at one
side (ARIN meetings) I'm considered to much into abuse prevention,
here its the opposite, I'm too linient on isps...
As far as Sprint, UUNET - I do not believe they have unsolicited emailers
on their network (do not confuse issues of sending email and hosting some
websites that are sometimes promoted in spam due to bad policies on
accepting new agents), if it is so, I know who to contact there, in fact
I'll see of these people in less then two weeks on ARIN meeting in Memphis
and if there is some position that ASRG has on what ISPs should and
should not do, I can deliver it.
And the issue of abuse, I suspect will be discussed there quite a bit
there and encorage you to see current proposals and discussion at
http://www.arin.net/policy/discussion.html
But I have to tell you, ISPs (including me) do not view proposal
2003-2 as a good one as ARIN has no role in actual routing operational
issues and position on revocations has not been made clear but we can work
on at least cleaning up whois records and things to help facilitate
communication and made it easy to track problems to get a response.
In any case if you have interest in these discussions please participate
at ppml mailing list, make your opinions known, etc.
But in the future please do not assume that ISPs do not have interest in
stopping spam, on the countrary we're the ones who have largest financial
losses due to it, losses associated with additional bandwidth, cost of
additional equipment, support costs for direct handling of spam into the
network abuse prevention out of the net and we're the ones who have most
interest in working solution. ISPs are the ones who started blacklists,
because of your upstreams many of your are not receiving spam and in
most cases they do it out of their own packet and do not charge you
anything extra even if it costs us. It would be in the best of this
group's interests not to alianate ISPs (especially large ones) but work
together to find suitable solution. And of the solutions that are found
I'm certain the ones that will be most workable and fastest to
implement worldwide are the ones that ISPs can use on their end and not
necessarily the ones that require every user to do something.
But ISPs do terminate accounts for sending unsolicited emails in any kind
of large number. There is a reason why all spammers have switched to China.
I wish I thought that was a joke instead of offensive and knowingly
false noise like "SPEWS has listed all of UUNET".
ISPs that don't terminate spammers make it worth for themselve and can not
get peering from other isps (i.e. remember AGIS?). And if they are buying
transit, then it becomes responsibility of their upstream to enforce AUP.
Who, pray tell, is upstream of UUNET or Sprint?
(yes, Sprint is rumored to have started actually terminating spammers)
You can not hope to stop spammer who just signed up today at large isp,
but large spammers rely on pemanent connections and try their best to hide
who they are and where they are sending emails from, ...
Since email spam first became a problem, I have not seen a single
spammer that was able to hide from anyone with minimal technical clues.
They can hide from computer programs (e.g. SpamAssasin and SpamCop)
for a while or linger, but that's only because computers are too stupid
to know about IP routing and so forth
Vernon Schryver vjs(_at_)rhyolite(_dot_)com
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