From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker(_at_)verisign(_dot_)com>
...
Unfortunately Vernon keeps calling me a liar, I am not.
It is much easier to ask people not to engage in flamewars
when they are not the party being libelled. Note that I have
made no comments about Vernon except to ask if he is a
member of the cabal he spends so much time defending and
to point out that his ad-hominem attacks are unhelpful.
...
In
<CE541259607DE94CA2A23816FB49F4A3110061(_at_)vhqpostal6(_dot_)verisign(_dot_)com>
Phillip Hallam-Baker also wrote
] Vernon keeps repeating the lie that I am knowingly misrepresenting spews
SPEWS really did blacklist us and the entire net that we
are on.
No one has doubted that SPEWS listed CIDR blocks covering some or all
of Verisign, despite the lack of supporting evidence such as a SPEWS
case number. The claims that SPEWS listed all of UUNET are otherwise.
SPEWS states that it is their policy to blacklist
all of an ISPs customers if they do not respond.
I think that is inaccurate but close enough to SPEWS' apparent policy
of "collateral damage." In my view that is a major mistake, a change
from what SPEWS claimed to be doing at its start, and a less important
one of the reasons I do not use SPEWS' list.
To pretend to have some relevance to the purpose of this mailing list,
please compare SPEWS to a CA that certifies mail as probably not spam.
By some accounts, SMTP clients not listed by SPEWS rarely send spam.
In effect, SPEWS has issued certs for all of the Internet and revoked
them for those outfits that have shown they are likely to send spam or
approve of or tolerate sending spam. Checking these certs affects the
processing incoming mail by at most a 30% increase in the DNS operations
done on all incoming mail. They are an excellent implementation of a
not-spam cert, subject only to questions about non-technical policies
and procedures.
...
Nor is it obvious that a blacklist could not be out of
control:
http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/06/08/orbs/
"MAPS also had a run-in with ORBS. In 1999, MAPS listed ORBS on its Realtime
Blackhole List, in response to several complaints about the way that ORBS
was supposedly abusing networks. ...
I think ORBS was not "out of control" but worse. I think ORBS was a
sender of unsolicted bulk email (relay scans) that tried to use what
might be called extortion against MAPS and its creditors. SPEWS was
reportedly created in part in reaction to features of ORBS.
...
Unless Vernon posts a denial that he is a member of the
spews cabal I will conclude that Vernon is a member and
direct any process the lawyers may want to serve in his
direction if the spews cabal takes similar action in future.
That is called a "cartooney" in some circles and may be sufficient to
get Verisign listed by a DNS email blacklist that specializes in
"cartooneys."
Vernon Schryver vjs(_at_)rhyolite(_dot_)com
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