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Re: [Asrg] New draft draft-irtf-asrg-bcp-blacklists-01.txt

2008-03-25 14:47:20

On Mar 25, 2008, at 12:28 PM, Al Iverson wrote:

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Douglas Otis 
<dotis(_at_)mail-abuse(_dot_)org>  
wrote:

Some BL policies do not adhere to the dubious philosophy expressed  
in section 2.2.1  and  2.2.3.

Could you elaborate upon the relevancy of that fact? I'm not seeing  
why it matters.

This was expanded upon in text you deleted by stating not all BLs  
depend upon full list automation.  Some lists attempt to audit  
networks and provide notifications to afford opportunities to remedy  
issues.  Establishing co-operative relationships often involves time.   
The time expended means such efforts can easily be gamed, especially  
when de-listing is automatic at set intervals or acted upon  
automatically from any request.  Keep in mind, some organizations  
structure their BL services differently.  Some offer BLs run in the  
manner suggested by the current version of the draft and others do  
not.  Trend happens to do both.  The difference between these two  
approaches is rather dramatic in respect to abating UCEs.  Neither  
management style offers a perfect system.  Each offer a level of  
service better suited to a range of individual needs.  This draft  
wrongly assumes only one approach should be used, and that is simply  
wrong in many cases.  Each of these approaches benefits the Internet  
overall, but no one should assume that one approach is always better  
than the other in every case.

Justifying a listing and de-listing policy should consider all factors  
involved.  This draft concludes de-listing interval of 180 days is  
sensible without a basis to support the claim.  It is not enough to  
say this policy has been used by company X, Y or Z.  Control on  
behaviour is the result of many differing policies.  It would be wrong  
to conclude one approach is somehow better than another.  They all  
play different roles and serve different needs.  One size does not fit  
all.  It is a myth the solution to spam is simply a matter solved  
through automation and standardized policies.  It hard to explain just  
how wrong that perspective is.

2.2.1.  Listings SHOULD Be Temporary

2.2.3.  Removals SHOULD Be Prompt

Automatic de-listing can be highly counter productive in  
controlling IP address ranges previously producing substantial  
levels of abuse. Requiring owners of an address range to request de- 
listing establishes points of contact to better deal with likely  
events of future abuse.

I think these should stand as is. I think they cover "it's not  
suitable to remove your IP address at this time" eventualities just  
fine.

It does not help the cause to have these "SHOULD" statements which, in  
the end, will likely prove highly counter productive.  While  
automation helps, it is not a complete solution, nor will automation  
ever be.  Automation can and is being gamed.

-Doug






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