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Re: [Asrg] Ideas for anti-spam

2010-09-27 14:49:50
hi Doug

Your scheme is easily poisoned.  Covert accounts are free and can  exchange 
messages with other accounts over some period and be  indistinguishable from 
normal users.  Unfortunately, the art of saying  something without saying 
anything has become a forte for many, like  adding +1 to a thread. ;^)

I dont see how. You mean those 1) covert accounts will be used to generate 
false 
reports? Or 2) will they not be detectable as spammers because they look like 
normal users?
For 1: users who file false reports can have their accounts suspended/cancelled.
For 2: its not possible to not be detected as a spammer. Anyone can be reported 
as a spammer. The evidence (offending messages) will be gathered. People who 
have been wrongly reported can appeal. 

I didnt understand your message.









________________________________
From: Douglas Otis <dotis(_at_)mail-abuse(_dot_)org>
To: asrg(_at_)irtf(_dot_)org
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 12:17:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Ideas for anti-spam

On 9/27/10 8:07 AM, Swaying Trees wrote:
I have some experience in fighting off intentional internet crime of a few 
different types so I have that mentality and I'm interested in stop spam. I 
love 
creating systems to catch the bad guys and I've been successful at it in a few 
different arenas.
Types of spam being targeted:
1. Forum/comment/website/blog spam
2. Video spam (youtube)
3. Basically most spam but not email spam.

Basic idea: USE the eyes of the public. The public is the target of spam. 
They're the ones that see it. Let THEM take care of the spam problem. They 
will 
be happy to do so.

All we need to do is this: Let 3 established users of that website flag the 
spam and hide it. If reporters abuse this feature, their accounts will be 
canceled or suspended so they have to be sure its really spam. Only let users 
with a certain account age flag spam (3 or 6 months, for example). People with 
new accounts can also flag it but it doesn't hide it right away. Instead it 
goes 
into an Spam approval que where more experienced users can take action. The 
problem is complex because these are human spammers so the solution has to be 
significant as well.

Scenario: Spammer posts comments on message board. 3 people flag it and its 
deleted automatically and the spammer's account is disabled. It can be 
renabled 
in case of a false alarm and if the user confirms they're not a spammer. No 
system is perfect but if it stops 95% of the spam coming in, its good enough. 
Spammers will realize that its simply not worth it if only 3 people can see 
their message and have the account disabled.

This would work for Yahoo messenger also. 3 people flag an account as spam 
and 
that's it. Different checks and balances can be created to take care of 
different "what if" situations.

Create a central website for example "flag the spam.com<http://spam.com>" 
(FTS). This is how it would work: On every piece of user created content 
(comments, videos), there is a "report" button, that makes a link to the FTS 
site. For example there's a spammer on Facebook or Youtube. When the FTS site 
receives reports from 3 people, it sends back an email to the website 
reporting 
the spammer's username). Facebook/Youtube automatically takes immediate 
action, 
deletes the comments and spam and disables the user account. The flag icon 
(looking like a trash can icon) would become a universal "report spam" symbol. 
Website owners could either let FTS do the work, or buy the software from FTS 
to 
install it on their websites. I've thought of creating a system like this and 
testing it out on smaller websites to the bigger ones can see it really works.

As mentioned, checks and balances could be created to take care of security 
and 
false alarms as much as possible. Secure keys and codes can be exchanged to 
make 
sure messages being exchanges are genuine and not fake. When there is so much 
spam going around, even if 3% of all reports are false, its still ok.

For spammers who create fake blogs or websites for traffic generation, the 
same 
approach can be used to send reports to Google so their site can be excluded 
from searches. The goal once again: Make spam reporting quick and easy for the 
public.
This is not true right now. Its difficult to report a certain website to 
Google 
for spam. Similarly, Facebook spam gets reported to admins who take action. 
Thats slow and there arent enough admins. Its very hard to report spam 
comments 
on Yahoo news. Also, action taken is slow.

For email spam, let each email server obtain an anti-spam certification which 
means, they take action against people who spam. Anyone who doesnt have that 
certification, will get a "spam" point meaning, their email will be more 
easily 
caught in spam filters. This creates a motive for email server admins to get 
certified. Black listed email servers which dont take any action against 
should 
not be entertained by other servers. They'll be left out of the internet cloud 
with no choice but to fix themselves. A system can be created to take care of 
cheats and other things.
Email spam is 95% of all emails sent. We cant fix this serious problem 
without 
having a serious solution.

Does anyone have any thoughts?
Your scheme is easily poisoned.  Covert accounts are free and can exchange 
messages with other accounts over some period and be indistinguishable from 
normal users.  Unfortunately, the art of saying something without saying 
anything has become a forte for many, like adding +1 to a thread. ;^)

-Doug
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