ietf-dkim
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [ietf-dkim] Replay isn't the problem, spam is the problem

2005-08-08 15:24:11
John R Levine wrote:
The point is that replay protection is _critical_ for automated
reputation and compensation mechanisms.

People keep saying this as though it's obvious.  I must be unusually dim
today because it's not obvious at all to me, and doesn't seem to have been
obvious to designers of previous signature systems.
You are right; I did not explain _why_ replay protection is critical (for automated reputation and compensation management).

Replay protection allows automated reputation management, since it provides a signed proof of misconduct. Of course, we get proof of misconduct also without replay protection, e.g. by showing the domain signed spam. But replay protection allows different penalty for sending/allowing a single spam to single recipient, vs. sending bulk (identical) spam to many recipients.

Replay protection allows automated compensation management: a signed spam automatically becomes a `certified check` crediting the recipient.

I can't put all details here (but can refer you to papers if you like); in any case, this is _not_ part of DKIM functionality. But DKIM _can_ provide the underlying mechanism for both automated reputation and automated compensation, provided `replay protection` or more correctly recipient identification is allowed (as an option).

Now to your other questions...

Do you check CRLs on S/MIME mail?  (They are turned off by default in many
MUAs.)  PGP seems to have no way to deal with replay at all.  Is that why
it hasn't caught on?
I don't think this is a problem with PGP, and CRLs are not sufficient as an anti-replay mechanism. But of course anti-replay is easy, e.g. if the signed text includes timestamp and recipient identification.

Doug has offered the only scenario so far of a replay attack, which is
very helpful to figuring out what the threat is.  His scenario boils down
to one of a domain's users being a spammer, which would be a problem
whether or not his spam was being remailed.
The scenario where `one of the domain users` is a spammer, or (temporarily) controlled by spammer (e.g. Zombied), is almost the most basic scenario we need to consider. Domains should be able to control the risk from a single customer (temporarily) being `bad`. The basic solution is rate limiting. For this to work, the domain should be able to control the `rate`, i.e. the amount of spam per user. Replay protection is essential. Without it, suppose a reputation manager (e.g. black list) gets a lot of complaints on a small or medium sized email domain V. Without recipient identification, it may be hard to distinguish between the following two cases:

Case 1: V is a Vicious domain: spammer or spammer-friendly.
Case 2: V is an innocent Victim. It only signed a single message of one of its customers (e.g. Zombied).
--
Best regards,

Amir Herzberg

Associate Professor
Department of Computer Science
Bar Ilan University
http://AmirHerzberg.com
Try TrustBar - improved browser security UI: http://AmirHerzberg.com/TrustBar Visit my Hall Of Shame of Unprotected Login pages: http://AmirHerzberg.com/shame
_______________________________________________
ietf-dkim mailing list
ietf-dkim(_at_)mipassoc(_dot_)org
http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>