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Re: [ietf-dkim] Re: DKIM and mailing lists

2006-01-19 15:28:44

On Jan 19, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Eliot Lear wrote:
Douglas Otis wrote:

The bad actors will have absolutely no trouble sending their spam through a list-server that is generally white-listed. Yahoogroups have lists where participants are in the millions. Once the bad actor reclaims their message, perhaps from the archive, they can then replay these spams world-wide and take advantage of the sterling reputation of the list. How long will it be before that list's reputation becomes less than sterling?

I think this is as it should be. If bad actor makes it on the list in the first place, then list isn't doing a good enough job of validating its members as good actors.

Most lists confirm the email-address by mailing back a link to verify that the participant indeed receives email at that email-address and wishes to subscribe to the list, a double op-in. Will participants on a list need to have their own certificate? You seem to be validating Phillip's concept of using trusted certificates rather than DKIM's self issued public keys.

Bad actors only need to post one message to then replay that message without limit within the delivery timeframe. This problem will exist for any large domain, where many compromised systems will do the same thing. Outbound filtering will not prevent this problem either. If the reputation of the signature has value, then the sender should be careful where they send it, and likewise the recipient should be careful who is allowed to see it. An overlay of the incoming signature by an MDA signature clearly indicating its role would ensure the message could never be used in a replay. An overlay practice does not involve the creation of a difficult establishment of trust mechanism with anonymous list-participants. DKIM was attempting to avoid this problem. By limiting possible sources for replay abuse, bad actors can be identified by where they send the messages for replay.

Sender beware. If it were to become common practice to overlay or remove the DKIM signature upon delivery, then the number of sources that would need to be listed as a replay risk would quickly become diminishing few, well within the timeframe where DKIM has acceptance value. DKIM as a basis for acceptance ensures abusive message replay will be prevalent without mitigating mechanisms. Chasing after millions of signatures of replayed messages will overwhelm any protective services. It may become common practice to selective sign or not send messages based upon the destination.

-Doug
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