ietf-dkim
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [ietf-dkim] Re: 1368 straw-poll :

2007-02-26 12:20:54
EKR wrote:
Hector Santos <hsantos(_at_)santronics(_dot_)com> writes:

In my view, it doesn't matter if its A, B, AB, XYZ or weaker or
stronger.   It is about expectations.

if S says I only sign with A, then R should not see signatures with B,
X or Y.

OK, but we're discussing what sorts of policies S should be able to
communicate. In particular, should S be able to say "I sign with
both A and B and any signature you see from me will have both,
not just either."

I understand. I wrote a first draft (DSAP) proposing the concept back in July/2006:

http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dkim/draft-santos-dkim-dsap-00.txt

section 4.4

4.4.  DSAP Tag: a=<hash-algorithm>

   The a=<hash-algorithm> tag defines the possible signature hashing
   algorithms used by the domain DKIM message signer.  The a= tag is NOT
   optional.

   The current algorithms are defined in DKIM [DKIM-BASE] section 3.3.

   o  rsa-sha1
   o  rsa-sha256

   Example:

   a=rsa-sha1,rsa-sha256;

   The main purpose of the a= tag is to allow domain signers the design
   and implementation opportunity to determine the highest strength
   possible by a particular target verifier by looking the DSAP DNS
   record for the target recipient domain host.  If this query results
   with no a= tag information, the default should be rsa-sha1 is the
   highest strength possible.

   Essentially, this is a negotiation and backward compatibility
   concept.  It is quite possible earlier pre-standard DKIM
   implementations supporting only rsa-sha1 may still exist.  The domain
   DKIM message signer's desire is to achieve the highest protection
   possible.  Instead of signing mail with a particular algorithm and
   hoping for the best, the signer can predetermine what the receiving
   system can handle in terms of hashing strength.

   [[anchor17: This verifier lookup concept is best utilize for high-
   value domains in 1 to 1 transactions.  It would not be practice
   Mailing List resigners with large distributions to use this
   concept.]]



Seeing failure as unsigned just doesn't cut it for me simply because
there will be MORE failures then success and we will need a way to
deal with that.

It seems to me that you're denying a basic premise of the system.
From base S 4.2:

   Verifiers SHOULD ignore failed signatures as though they were not
   present in the message.  Verifiers SHOULD continue to check
   signatures until a signature successfully verifies to the
   satisfaction of the verifier.  To limit potential denial-of-service
   attacks, verifiers MAY limit the total number of signatures they will
   attempt to verify.

You are seeming 100% correct. :-)

Its no secret I had seen this as a flawed concept since day UNO and I strongly believe its the genesis of most of the unsolvable debates here.

This alone is enough to make DKIM unadoptable and unacceptable across the board in practice. Its like buying a new car knowing you have a cracked rack and pinion. You shouldn't be surprise there will be problems with this. :-)

The only redeeming solution is a POLICY based concept that will help put a definition around inevitable failure. Unhanded Blind Failure is not going to be tolerated.

Just consider that once you begin to send in a NON-SSP environment, the default policy is "NEUTRAL."

Whats the point behind DKIM receivers checking X unsigned message vs Y unsigned message from the same domain? Whats the value between the two? The concept that there is no value between a REAL unsigned messaged and a failed signed message in relation to a single domain, to me, is a flawed concept. To expect receivers to treat these two the same is asking bit more out of the ordinary logic.

--
HLS



_______________________________________________
NOTE WELL: This list operates according to http://mipassoc.org/dkim/ietf-list-rules.html