ietf-mxcomp
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RE: Accreditation NON-Proposal

2004-03-17 18:52:27
(Please forgive the HTML - not at my normal desk at the moment.)

        Gordon Fecyk <gordonf(_at_)pan-am(_dot_)ca> wrote:
        >> From: Hallam-Baker, Phillip [mailto:pbaker(_at_)verisign(_dot_)com
<mailto:pbaker(_at_)verisign(_dot_)com> ]
        > 
        >> But I would certainly accept that we need to change the
        >> equation, assume all email guilty until proven innocent.
        
        >    I hope you mean that _recipients_ would assume this, as a matter
of
        individual choice.

        Yep.  If you're going to hold me to "The recipient decides," then
hold me to it here, too.  As I've noted, I don't want a third-party to
implicitly tell me to treat all senders as suspect until proven otherwise.
        
        > Then it's a matter of how to prove innocence.  For me, the
        > sender (domain) demonstrating accountability is enough.
        
        >    Ah, but what counts as "demonstrating accountability"?

        Good question.  My idea of demonstrating accountability, at least per
domain, is the domain identifying a sending host as one of theirs.  All of
the proposals to date use this approach to let a domain administration
demonstrate accountability.  There may be better ways, which is what I
believe we're here to find.

        > A lot of the
        > largest ISPs have an <abuse> mailbox, which even generates
pleasant-
        > sounding autoreplies, but there's considerable controversy whether
        > abuse complaints are acted upon...

        That's not very accountable, agreed.

        

        I want to be able to complain to a domain in the following escalating
order (this is just my preference): abuse mailbox (if it exists - it's not
required), postmaster mailbox, whois contacts, hosting ISP.  From there I
want to refuse mail from the domain if it's unresolved.

        I can't do that if the mail claiming to be from a domain isn't really
from the domain, or isn't from a user or host the domain's accountable for.

        > > I'd want that demonstrated by the sender (domain) and not by a
third
        > > party however.
        
        >    I'm afraid I don't understand _how_ a sender you have no
out-of-band
        contact with _could_ demonstrate this.

        I'd like to think THAT's one of the reasons we're here.  To provide a
way for an enterprise to demonstrate e-mail accountability.
        
        >  Personally, I'd want multiple third-party evaluations of how
        responsive they are to <abuse> reports.

        The receiver decides, and I would never fault you for wanting this
kind of information before accepting a domain's mail.  I'm not comfortable
with it and I believe it has too-high a barrier to entry for senders.  If the
domain administration can tell me directly I'll trust that first. Finding a
way for them to tell me, again, is why I believe we're here.

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