ietf-mxcomp
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Re: Different identities for different problems?

2004-03-28 20:24:31


On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Yakov Shafranovich wrote:

The goal of attacking hijacked machines is stated in the introduction of 
the DRIP proposal.

Bad idea - there is nothing that stops spammer from using domain with no 
dns record and it really does not help situation with zombies. All DRIP 
does is possibly help a little with forgeries seen in the end usually in 
the received header which help with tracking and that is all (but usually 
tracking is done by ip anyway).

What does help is the record in reverse DNS (as in MTAMARK) indicating 
that no emails should be sent from this dial or dsl or corporate net 
and this MUST be done by ISP and not anybody else - they are the ones who 
control the ip block and know what is supposed to be there or not, however 
it needs to be more complex then MTAMARK as handle redirection and 
inclusion of user data properly (i.e. SPF or similar). There are also some 
issues with RFC2317 (which is in my opinion just a bad RFC that instead 
of proposing to do futher reverse subdelegation with NS, tried to get by 
with CNAMEs - bad, that means it will only work for PTR records and not 
anything else that might be in in-addr).

But DRIP and/or RMX can be combined together with MTAMARK helping each 
other out. If ISP is not willing to (or what is more likely that its slow 
to act and) properly whitelist the IP of client machine then DRIP or RMX 
can come in and user can setup his email server to specifically whitelist 
this one ip (and only one or two but singular ips not ip range as not to 
give a hole for spammers to setup domains that whitelist entire world).
Same true going back to RMX where airport kiosks annd forwarding server 
and similar (these are the biggest problems with RMX as far as who will 
suffer), their reverse ip can possily be whitelisted and then this will 
indicate that the mail server at that ip will send emails with RMX not 
matching 821 Mail-From (or 822 Mail-From if people on this list think that 
is better).

My thinking is that all of these DRIP, RMX, MTA-MARK should be done 
together if people are willing to do even just one of them. Each one can 
serve its own purpose and at the same time when records are whitelisted
by two of these and blacklisted by the last one, then the policy should
be to let email through allowing to deal with either possible errors in 
setup or delibebetly when its appropriate in the situation. If people 
think it opens the hole for spammers, I can explain that in reality the 
hole is minor one and when using these holes spammers will expose themselve
quite a bit (for example spammer that wants to whitelist his zombie proxy 
will have to setup domain with RMX and DRIP records for each proxy; this 
will allow to track proxy to specific spammer and also provides record of 
intent for law enforcement).

If people are interested I'll write details on this, but I dont want to 
bother if there is not some initial support for it and if everyone just 
continues to argue and push their favorite proposal focusing on one single 
element (except SPF which at least tries to do things in more combined
way focusing how to best accomodate different client implementations).

-- 
William Leibzon
Elan Networks
william(_at_)elan(_dot_)net