ietf-mxcomp
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RE: consensus call on pra/mailfrom deployment and versioning/scope

2004-09-10 15:17:22

On September 10, 2004 1:03 PM, John Glube 
[mailto:jbglube(_at_)sympatico(_dot_)ca]
wrote:

Harry,

I appreciate the point that:

Microsoft's IPR disclosure clearly states that our IPR 
claims relate to 
the maird-core and marid-pra specs used in combination.  We are not 
aware of any IPR claims on marid-core used in combination with some 
other specification.

I acknowledge that:

... Administrators or any other end users of licensed Sender ID 
implementations do not require a license from Microsoft.  This is 
clearly stated in section 2.2 of the Sender ID license.

Perhaps I did not make my point clearly in my earlier note. 

Perhaps I misunderstood.  At any rate, thank you for taking the time to
clarify.

So, let me give a specific example.

Let's say I am a software developer. 

A protocol is adopted which allows MTA's to do mailfrom 
and/or pra checks. The specification includes 
draft-marid-core (modified to include reference to mailfrom 
checks as well as pra checks), draft-marid-pra and 
draft-marid-mailfrom.

(This is somewhat speculative on my part, but we need a set 
of facts for the sake of discussion.)

This is my understanding of the co-chairs proposal too.

Microsoft has an IPR claim on using draft-marid-pra in 
combination with draft-marid-core.

(I make this statement based on Microsoft's existing
claims.)

Correct.

I want to write a program which allows an MTA to run mailfrom 
and/or pra checks using these specifications and then 
distribute this program to end users.

The program will be a plug in, or filter which is designed to 
work with any of the existing MTA's on the market.

The draft patent license contains the following:

Microsoft ... hereby grant You a perpetual ...worldwide 
license under Microsoft's Necessary Claims to use ...
object code versions of Licensed Implementations only as 
incorporated into Licensed Products and solely for the 
purpose of conforming with the Sender ID Specification.

(See section 2.1 of the draft Patent License.)

I appreciate that as long as I include the requisite notice:

You also have ... a ... license to distribute or otherwise 
disclose source code copies of such Licensed Implementation ...

(See section 2.2 of the draft Patent License.)

The question is whether I can incorporate mailfrom checks in 
my program, so that an end user can do both mailfrom and/or 
pra checks using my software program?

Yes, you can.  We are not aware of any Microsoft IPR claim related to
spoof checking of MAIL FROM.  Therefore, the Sender ID license is
irrelevent for checking MAIL FROM.  

My concern is with the last restriction in the draft patent 
license which reads:

... "and solely for the purpose of conforming with the Sender 
ID Specification." 

I take this to mean "object code versions of Licensed 
Implementations only as incorporated into Licensed Products" 
can only be used to "conform with the Sender ID Specification."

(The Sender ID Specification being defined as the combination 
of draft-marid-pra with draft-marid-core.)

On this point, please also note the following Q & A from 
Microsoft's FAQ:

Q8: What if I want to use the Sender ID technology in some 
other context, still related to email but perhaps not related 
to Sender ID? Will Microsoft sue me? 

A8: Microsoft is committed to working with companies in a 
collaborative way to license our Intellectual Property (see 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/). If Microsoft is granted 
patent rights that cover the Sender ID specification 
(currently pending) it will make those rights available at no 
cost for anyone to implement and use the Sender ID 
specification. Microsoft will need to see what patent rights 
are granted by the US Patent and Trademark Office to even 
know for sure what rights it has to offer.
Since it is impossible to contemplate every possible use of 
it Sender ID patent rights we cannot make a commitment up 
front to specific license terms. We invite anyone interested 
in using Microsoft's IP to innovate and compete in the 
marketplace to come talk to us. 

I want to use the Sender ID technology in a software program 
which allows network administrators to run both mailfrom 
and/or pra checks on incoming email to the network, or 
outgoing email from the network she is administrating.

Can I do this under the license terms, or do I as per Q8 and 
A8 need a separate license from Microsoft?

As I stated above, we are not aware of any Microsoft IPR claims on MAIL
FROM checking, so our license is not relevent.  So, to be as clear as I
can, if you're implementing spoof checks of both PRA and MAIL FROM under
the framework described in Core (and our patent application is granted)
then you would need a license for the PRA check but not the MAIL FROM
check.  If you are implementing spoof checking of MAIL FROM and _not_
PRA, we have no IPR claims, and no license to offer. 

If I need a separate license then as I note in my earlier
email:

As such, the restriction contained in the draft patent 
Sender-ID license would preclude network administrators from 
incorporating both mailfrom and pra checks without obtaining 
separate permission from Microsoft.

To be totally clear, the concern should have read:

As such, the restriction contained in the draft patent 
Sender-ID license would preclude network administrators from 
incorporating both mailfrom and pra checks without the 
distributor of any such Licensed Implementation obtaining 
separate permission from Microsoft.

I trust this helps to clarify the issue raised in my earlier note.

Thanks.  Likewise, I hope I've answered your question.