Re: draft-kucherawy-greylisting-bcp
2011-10-28 01:07:41
Interrupting my work on the reply to your previous message, but I can
answer this one more quickly:
On 10/28/11 12:13 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
Pete,
On 10/28/2011 6:28 AM, Pete Resnick wrote:
If a document
defines conventions and particular methods of using a technical
specification,
then there can be implementations of the document, and therefore
incremental
experience with it, and it therefore should be on the standards track.
If a document defines ways of being interoperable with a technical
specification,
then there can be implementations of the document, and therefore
incremental
experience with it, and it therefore should be on the standards track.
You think BCP 23, 24, 28, 34, ... involve no software and do not
change the behavior of protocol engines?
By your personal definitions, these seem to have been mis-assigned and
ought to be required to be standards track.
Probably. And often to the repeated consternation of the community. We
*repeatedly* get into arguments on the IETF list (and in working group
lists) about what should be BCP or Informational and what should be
standards track. I know chairs and ADs who get asked time and again for
guidance on this topic, and they get different answers depending on who
they ask (and the way the wind is blowing.) There is *not* community
consensus on this point. We are haphazard in our assignment to each of
the categories.
There is a core problem: you appear to be using your personal
terminology and definitions, rather than reflecting community practice.
To the contrary, I am constantly reflecting on community practice. That
practice is inconsistent. It varies by WG, by AD, by IESG, and by the
entire community over time. Sometimes in waves.
My push has been that *I* will try to have WGs in the Apps Area for
which I am the stuckee be as consistent in their practice as I can
convince them to be. So I'm trying.
In all likelihood, your terms and definitions are more reasonable,
consistent and practical than the community's, but that's irrelevant.
What is relevant is established practice.
If there were an established practice, I would agree with you
completely. There's not.
It's fine to seek a change in established practice, but not as a sole
voice in a management position, invoking personal and distinct
language and requirements. That's not supposed to be the way things
work around here.
My query about applicability statements was not about documents that
effectively serve that role but about documents that are formally
assigned that status AND are effective. Established practice, not
personal assessment.
[...]
Please get the consensus of the community about this.
I absolutely am trying to get said consensus. One document, one WG at a
time. I have asked WGs (in other areas as well as Apps) why some
documents are Informational or BCP instead of standards track. Sometimes
they tell me to blow. Sometimes they agree and switch the documents to
standards track. I'm hoping that if I repeat this exercise enough times,
we can get to a consensus on this.
Now, maybe you are complaining that, given my position as AD (and its
unfortunate perception as authoritative), my style of trying to achieve
that consensus is actually "coercing" rather than "getting" that
consensus. (Stories of missing fire hydrants come to mind.) I've
certainly misjudged such things before, and if I'm doing it here, I'll
try to change tack. But my intentions are as pure as such things ever get.
Please then re-label the documents that have been misassigned.
One windmill at a time.
pr
--
Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102
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