On 9/28/20 9:10 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
I've made those arguments multiple times already. "evidence" seems
like the wrong thing to ask for because this is really a question of
/design/ - what choices should be made to allow the email network to
continue operating seamlessly and efficiently in the event of
widespread use of NAT within the network (either to gateway between
IPv4 and IPv6 or to economize use of IPv4 space)?
I’ve seen lots of arguments, yes, but I’ve not seen any real evidence
backing up your assertions.
Most of this is what I've picked up reading IETF lists and trade
publications for years. I guess I thought it was common knowledge
within IETF that NATs were increasingly being used in these ways -
certainly there were many discussions about it in IETF several years ago.
I’m trying to better understand your point of view and understand why
this is so important. But it’s been hard to find that in the sniping.
The design question is one that should be discussed, but is this the
correct space for that?
Arguably the discussion should be taking place on the emailcore WG
mailing list rather than here. But we started the discussion here.
The changes I see happening include the increasing scarcity of IPv4
address space and the consequent emergence of IPv6-only network
providers using NAT to move packets between IPv4 and IPv6 addressing
domains. I'm also anticipating the need to eventually phase out the
public IPv4 Internet altogether.
Or we could write the BIS to recommend anyone running v4 services also
provide v6 services, couldn’t we? Take the burden off the v6 only
systems which are likely newer entrants and put it on the ‘old timers’
who’ve been around for decades.
We could make such a recommendation. Though I expect, that like spam
filterers, network operators will do what they want, and consider
themselves justified in doing so, regardless of what we recommend.
I suspect that the task before us is to make recommendations that both
spam filterers and network operators will find palatable.
(From operators' perspective: how long does it make sense for every
network to maintain its IPv4 baggage, just so that email won't be
blocked? At the very least we need input from network operators.)
My experience is that folks running MTAs on IPv6 actually enact
stricter technical requirements on those systems. For instance, many
IPv4 servers will accept mail without valid rDNS on the sending IP or
will accept mail without SPF records, while the IPv6 servers run by
the same entities require those things directly.
It might even make sense for IPv6 operations to "raise the bar". For
example, PTR lookup of IPv6 addresses allows finer-grained delegation
than PTR lookup of IPv4 addresses. But regardless of what some
operators are doing, I think this requires careful analysis to justify
from a standards perspective. I suspect there will be IPv4-only
networks with a legitimate need to originate mail to IPv6-only servers.
Keith
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