On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 03:16:25PM -0600, Vernon Schryver wrote:
Sue on what grounds? Who says that Internet service has no limits?
If there are limits they'd have to be in the contract.
All reputable service providers have terms of service that include
limits, starting with something about network abuse.
Hmmm ... we have no limits and we have no AUP that forbids anything.
We sell Internet access, just like a car company sells cars. The car
company doesn't have a passus "you are not allowed to cross red lights"
because they neither have the possibility nor the legal authority to
enforce such a passus and we don't have "you are not allowed to hack
other computers". However law in Germany gives us the possibility
to terminate such an account at any time, as hacking is not allowed
and if we know about it we have to take appropiate actions to stop
illegal behaviour.
We have DSL accounts for "private use" on dynamic address space
with a disconnect every 24 hours (policy of our "DSL carrier") and
we have DSL accounts for "business use" that can have a static IP
address and that don't have disconnections (most of them on SDSL).
We're currently thinking about a port 25 outgoing block for "private
use" DSL accounts, but this will be a clear passus in the contract
and also be listed in the product description.
(Never mind
how well those limits are enforced.) Many service providers limit
their users to not running "servers," but good luck finding someone
who knows what they mean by "server."
If you want to buy a car and ask if it has air bags and nobody can
give you a definite answer, would you buy the car if it is important to
you to have an air bag?
If the ISP can't answer the question about improtant product details,
why do you sign a contract with that provider? Because he is cheaper
than others? Now what would most probably be the reason?
Since there are always providers, you can't sue simply because you
bought an account with limits you failed to clarify.
This is the important part: "you failed to clarify".
Trying to find first line technical support people (never mind sales)
at a consumer grade ISP who knows has any idea what sort of filtering
their employer does is hopeless. It's generally foolish to expect to
find someone who even understands the question.
Maybe you didn't look hard enough? ;-)
I've not seen anyone selling "DSL Surf Accounts," but I've never looked,
and certainly not in Germany.
In any case,
- which of the classes in
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-ip-service-terms-02.txt
is closest to a "DSL Surf Accounts"?
It is probably something like "Web connectivity" or "Client connectivity
only", but I find the terms in the draft *very* fuzzy and overlapping.
And no I haven't yet thought about it long enough to make suggestions ;-)
In general I support all what you said to some extent.
But there are always tradeoffs if you get your DSL access from a "big
player" who may be a bit cheaper vs. access from a smaller ISP that
may be a bit more expensive but may provide a lot more service and
support.
\Maex
--
SpaceNet AG | Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 | Fon: +49 (89) 32356-0
Research & Development | D-80807 Muenchen | Fax: +49 (89) 32356-299
"The security, stability and reliability of a computer system is reciprocally
proportional to the amount of vacuity between the ears of the admin"
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