_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephane H. Maes [mailto:stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 12:16 PM
To: exec-director(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org;
iesg-secretary(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Cc: Eric Burger; Glenn Parsons
Subject: Issue with Meeting Schedule change at the last moment
Importance: High
Dear Sir or Madam,
I would like to log a formal complain and objection against the apparent
decision to accept a late change of agenda. I want to appeal this decision; if
indeed it is possible to simply brush away our concerns as seems to have been
the case - see below.
I believe that this decision and the change in question are unwise,
unreasonable and disfranchising participants. It may probably even violates
process and cutoff dates. In any case, it is impossible to make appropriate
travel plans if such changes are allowed.
I consider that this is fundamentally grave incident that goes beyond the
particular details of the lemonade meeting. It must be addressed in practice
now and in appropriate process updates if the process was correctly followed or
of there is no process on this.
So, we demand that the meeting changes be rejected so that Lemonade only meets
on Wednesday as was originally scheduled (at least as late as October 28th on
ietf.org) and not announced till Nov 2 on Lemonade(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org(_dot_)
We also demand clarification of the deadline for change of the IETF agenda and
if needed setting appropriate deadlines (e.g. 15 days) as for most other
standard bodies and industry fora.
I hope common sense will prevail and that IETF will put first and foremost the
participants to its WGs and meetings and not unduly burden them with having to
choose between unreasonable challenges with their travel plans and the cost of
rescheduling or being disfranchised from the discussions.
Your immediate attention in this matter is required.
Thanks
Stephane
_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
I frankly don't understand. Clearly, the message and the objection does not
resonate... This situation is unreasonable and I object to it.
Also, http://www.ietf.org/meetings/cutoff_dates_61.html does not indicate that
WG scheduled slots can still change. When was the change done? The change was
not displayed by Oct 28. The changes were communicated to Lemonade on Nov 2 -
after the Nov 1 deadline if we stick to that line of reasoning. So I believe
that in any case we have process / cut-off date violation; whatever
unreasonable that it may be.
I wish to formally log with IETF my complain and escalate / appeal the decision
if any has been made final. Where / how?
I wish common sense would prevail here.
Thanks
Stephane
_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephane H. Maes [mailto:stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 11:01 AM
To: iesg-secretary(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: [Inquiry #18878] AutoReply: Issue with Meeting Schedule change at the
last moment
Importance: High
Dear Sir or Madam,
I would like this request to reject the meeting change to be followed up by the
IETF organization and appropriately handled as soon as possible. You will
understand that it may stills affect the travel plans of many...
The explanations for the changes given below, while probably quite valid, do
not justify that such late change be warranted.
I am left with no other option than to object to the changes. Please note the
objection. I would appreciate your help to act on it.
Could you also clarify the escalation process in place if the request is not
acted upon or denied?
Thanks
Stephane
_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephane H. Maes [mailto:stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:47 AM
To: Ted Hardie; Eric Burger; lemonade(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Cc: Glenn Parsons
Subject: RE: [lemonade] Meeting Schedule - Can we cancel Monday meeting?
Ted,
Thanks for the explanation. I understand that this may be an exceptional
situation with unique circumstances that led to the change of schedule.
Although I had already left when it was discussed, I also agree that 2 slots
would have been better than one and useful to accomplish enough work. The
intention was good.
However, this is where I think that a due process should be in place explicitly
in order to prevent that such situations when they occur simply imply changes
of schedule at the last moment. Again most standard / industry fora have
deadlines for meeting scheduling and changes in place. I would be surprised if
the IETF does not; especially considering the large number of budget
constrained IETF participants...
So, acknowledging the good intent and that more slots are needed and that they
should be allocated for Lemonade in the future, I still believe that it is
unwise to have such a change at this time; independently of the good reasons
that have been enumerated.
I believe that there must have been ample time to re-schedule early enough
e-mail related activities if there were concerns of overlap with other parallel
activities. It can't justify a late change. More troublesome even, I am now
reading that because of the overlap the meeting expected to be the main one
(main attendance) would be the one on Monday, at the new slot? This is not
acceptable.
Therefore, and in order to avoid protracted debate, I must firmly object to the
schedule changes and re-iterate my request to cancel the Monday meeting. Please
note that it should be understood that this should not be considered as a
request to "cancel a scheduled meeting" but rather as a rejection of a change
of schedule that occurred / was communicated way too late...
Thanks
Stephane
_____Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Hardie [mailto:hardie(_at_)qualcomm(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 8:42 AM
To: Stephane H. Maes; Eric Burger; lemonade(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Cc: Glenn Parsons
Subject: RE: [lemonade] Meeting Schedule - Can we cancel Monday meeting?
At 9:37 PM -0800 11/2/04, Stephane H. Maes wrote:
In order to accommodate this issue, I would like to request that
Lemonade meeting *only* takes place on Wednesday PM and that the Monday
meeting be canceled!
In the working group discussion in Vancouver, I heard a very clear statement
from the Chairs that the working group would need two meeting slots, and I
approved those slots with the Secretariat when asked. Given the FTC email
authentication summit on Tuesday and Wednesday, I am already concerned about
attendance at e-mail related groups on those days. Cancelling
a scheduled
working group meeting to have a meeting only during that window is unwise, in
my opinion.
I understand your frustration with the agenda scheduling problem. It is
perennial, with some updates even happening after the IETF week starts. This
IETF week's problems are worse than usual because a late award of the hotel
contract meant we have fewer rooms and thus less slack to use parallel
scheduling. Getting contract awards back on track is one thing I hope will be
resolved by the administrative restructuring process, so hopefully this problem
will be less critical at future meetings.
In the mean time, please remember that the IETF process requires that all
decisions taken at meetings be confirmed on the mailing list, and that you will
have a chance at the Wednesday slot for informal conversations
about work done on Monday. While we would all be happier if active
participants were available for the meeting slots and likely side discussions,
we will all simply have to recognize that the process provides ways to make
progress even when this is not so.
Again, I am sorry for your frustration in this matter,
regards,
Ted Hardie
_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
To whom it may concern,
I would appreciate your help in addressing this matter.
I do not believe that it is appropriate to make late agenda changes where WG
meetings are moved from one day to another. These are making it simply
impossible to settle travel arrangements and this disfranchise participants.
To that extent in this matter we would like to have the Monday session
cancelled.
In addition, we would like to understand the process in place (if any) and
amended to avoid this in the future.
Your immediate help on this matter would be appreciated.
Thanks
Stephane
_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephane H. Maes [mailto:stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 9:37 PM
To: Eric Burger; lemonade(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Cc: Glenn Parsons
Subject: RE: [lemonade] Meeting Schedule - Can we cancel Monday meeting?
Eric and all,
As I did not get any answer yet, I must raise the issue.
I think that it is inappropriate to have such significative change in the
agenda taking place so close before the meeting. This is making travel
arrangements impossible to make or to update. We need to have a more reasonable
process and deadlines for such changes. If they exist and were respected, I am
not aware of them, but in any way they would then be ridiculously way too short
and need to be questioned. No other standard body that I know would accept such
late agenda change!
To the best that I know and understand how this goes, participation to lemonade
does not imply nor require participation to any other IETF activities. It is
therefore not reasonable to expect participants to be able to attend a meeting
another day when the change occurs the week before (as far as I noticed).
In my case I carefully crafted an itinerary from SFO to Europe to DC that now
falls apart!
In order to accommodate this issue, I would like to request that Lemonade
meeting *only* takes place on Wednesday PM and that the Monday meeting be
canceled!
Thanks you in advance for your help in this matter.
Stephane
_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax: +1-650-506-7222; Office UM:
+1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane(_dot_)maes(_at_)oracle(_dot_)com
IM: shmaes (AIM) or stephane_maes(_at_)hotmail(_dot_)com (MSN Messenger)
-----Original Message-----
From: lemonade-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
[mailto:lemonade-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:37 AM
To: lemonade(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: [lemonade] Meeting Schedule
MONDAY, November 8, 2004
1300-1500 Afternoon Sessions I
APP lemonade Enhancements to Internet email to Support Diverse Service
Environments WG
WEDNESDAY, November 10, 2004
1530-1730 Afternoon Sessions II
APP lemonade Enhancements to Internet email to Support Diverse Service
Environments WG
_______________________________________________
lemonade mailing list
lemonade(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf