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RE: Domain Centric Administration, RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-natpt-to-historic-00.txt

2007-07-03 08:38:17

From: Ned Freed [mailto:ned(_dot_)freed(_at_)mrochek(_dot_)com] 

Keith, while I agree with your general point that 
applications have no choice but to be aware of lower layer 
semantics in many if not most cases, this last is not a good 
example of that. There is really no difficulty running SMTP 
or any other stream oriented protocol on top of a 
record-based protocol - all you have to do is ignore the 
record boundaries and make sure your buffer isn't larger than 
the maximum record size. Not only did our SMTP implementation 
require nothing more than a change of low-level network 
primitives to work over DECnet, it interoperated fine with 
several other SMTP over DECnet implementations back in the 
day with no need to agree on any sort of additional semantics.

Quite, and HTTP runs happily on DECNET. 

The converse is not true, however - you cannot simply slap a 
protocol that depends on record boundaries onto a stream 
protocol and expect it to work, such as MAIL-11 over TCP (not 
that anyone in their right mind would use MAIL-11 this 
way...).

Which of course is true and in my view indicates a flawed network architecture. 
If the application layer is required to take notice of what is going on at the 
lower levels its because the layering was botched.

The Internet stack is petty clean and that is one of its major advantages over 
other schemes.


Of course you have to log IP addresses etc for logging purposes. And there are 
rare cases where you want to break the layering model and take notice of an IP 
address for issues such as login attempt throtling. These are not actions that 
others need to depend on being done in particular ways.

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