Re: IPv42007-08-03 02:22:30On 3-aug-2007, at 10:17, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: ARIN does not want an address market? So what? I'd like someone to give me a free Porche. Does not mean its going to happen. So the fact that you're not getting a free car means that we're going to have an IP address market? Since they are the ones administering 1.5 billion of the 2.5 billion addresses given out, including the legacy class A space, not much is going to happen without their cooperation. Define 'administering'. Does ARIN have the effective legal or technical capability to revoke an address block allocation within a relevant timescale? Does ARIN have the capability to police the market and detect attempts to sell space? Methinks not. They do to some degree. Whether that's going to be enough is unknown at this time. I do know that if ARIN says it shouldn't happen, and people try to make it happen anyway, ARIN has a problem and they'll have to do something about it. Also, in the end it's all about what routing information people accept from others. If ARIN can get a reasonable subset of all network operators to reject certain prefixes from certain people, the prefixes are useless to those people and the act of selling is moot. It will be interesting to see what ARIN does if (for instance) HP tries to sell 30 million addresses. I don't think ARIN can let that happen and I don't think that HP has a good case in court if ARIN subsequently takes the addresses. (If they were going to sell them obviously they didn't need them.) HP was allocated much of their space before there was an ARIN. So? The only problem is that the people who got this space didn't have to sign any documents to get it, which makes it harder to do things like collect fees. It doesn't automatically mean the address space is for them to own until the end of time. The only effect that threats from ARIN would have in this situation is to make the situation worse. HP uses the address space internally. Transition to a different address space where they are behind a NAT has real costs for them. They are only going to make the transition if they can recover those costs. But if they're selling, obviously they don't need the space so this becomes a very weak argument. However, this is a reasonable argument against ARIN just reclaiming the address space over night. (All the more reason that IF reclamation is going to happen, that it start happening soon.) Preventing the resale of address space might well entail an anti- trust violation. LOL. Since when do we have competition in this area? Phase 3: Speculation You forget that the only people who'll have trouble are those that need NEW address space. That's a relatively small percentage of the internet community at any given time. Do not use the phrase 'you appear to forget' to introduce dubious claims of fact. I could accuse you of being ignorant or stupid instead, but that would be impolite. It suggests that people disagree with you out of ignorance rather than not accepting the claim you make. In this case the claim you make is at best irrelevant. Hardly. If you're out of oil, cars stop in the street. If you're out of IP addresses, the internet will be able to do everything it did the day before except accept new users/systems. That's a pretty big difference. _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
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