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Re: Let's look at it from an IETF newbie's perspective... Re: IPv4 Outage Planned for IETF 71 Plenary

2007-12-19 11:52:04
Good idea, I will be happy to work on that session and I¹m sure other folks
from the EDU team will like the idea.

Regards,
Jordi





De: Ed Juskevicius <edj(_at_)nortel(_dot_)com>
Responder a: <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Fecha: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:16:59 -0500
Para: Dan York <dyork(_at_)voxeo(_dot_)com>
CC: <iaoc(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>, <iesg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>, 
<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Conversación: Let's look at it from an IETF newbie's perspective... Re: IPv4
Outage Planned for IETF 71 Plenary
Asunto: RE: Let's look at it from an IETF newbie's perspective... Re: IPv4
Outage Planned for IETF 71 Plenary

What if someone took the initiative to organize a new "newbie training"
session on Sunday in Philadelphia, entitled something like "getting your
laptop ready for the planned IPv4 outage experiment on Wednesday night" ?
 
Would that reduce the potentially negative perspectives that newbies would
take home after the meeting?
 
Just a thought ...
 
Regards,
 
Ed Juskevicius
edj(_at_)nortel(_dot_)com


From: Dan York [mailto:dyork(_at_)voxeo(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:54 PM
To: iaoc(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; iesg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Let's look at it from an IETF newbie's perspective... Re: IPv4
Outage Planned for IETF 71 Plenary

I have resisted adding anything to this debate about the IPv4 outage because
people have already stated many of the good points.  I particularly agreed
with the points made that from a PR point-of-view this was not a great idea.

Let me, though, add another perspective.  What about all the newbies?  What
are they going to do during this time?

At IETF 70, there was a question raised in one of the plenaries asking "How
many of you are here for the first time?" and a significant number of hands
went up.  So let's look at this proposed IPv4 outage *during the plenary*
from their perspective.  Now, these newcomers may or may not have been
subscribed to IETF mailing lists.  They may or may not have attended the
Sunday "intro to IETF for newcomers" session.  They may or may not in fact
be technical folks.  They are probably still trying to figure out how all
this works and why these people are humming, etc.

So now we go into one of the plenary sessions and it is announced that "we
will now shut down IPv4 and use only IPv6".  The newcomer notices that:
1. A good percentage of the audience now dive into their laptops and become
engrossed in diagnosing how their system works with IPv6. Side conversations
are starting everywhere and occasional shouts of "Aha!" emerge from random
groups.
2. Another percentage gets up and leaves in search of cookies.
3. Some percentage who missed reading the emails are suddenly upset because
they lost their IPv4 connectivity.
4. Some percentage pops in their EVDO/EDGE/whatever cards and continues
along as they were before doing their work and completely ignoring the
plenary speakers.
5. Some percentage never showed up at the plenary because they went to join
Richard Shockey at a local steak house.
6. Non-technical users or others who did not subscribe to IETF mailing lists
are sitting there dumbfounded with a deer-caught-in-the-headlights look
wondering what the heck is going on and if this has anything to do with the
hums.
7. NO ONE is paying attention to the speaker(s) in front of the room during
this part of the plenary.

Now maybe the newcomer is all excited about IPv6 and so plunges into the
technical troubleshooting.  Maybe they go look for cookies or steak.  Maybe
they sit there dumb-founded.  Probably they are left wondering what the
point of this IETF "plenary" session really was.

I don't dispute that such an exercise could be an interesting experiment in
IPv6 connectivity (and one in which I would join), although in many cases I
think we can already know the outcome.  I just question the wisdom of doing
it during the *plenary*.  It would seem to me to be a great exercise to do
at some other point during the week when the people who care can attend and
identify issues, work through them, etc.  Or we do as Ted suggested and just
run an entire event with only IPv6 wireless. (and count how many people are
using EVDO/EDGE cards!)

It goes back to a more fundamental question - what is the purpose of the
plenary?  What information do we want to get across to attendees to the
session?  (And if we *do* plan an IPv4 outage, what is going to be talked
about during the time of the outage?)

My 2 cents, (now worth less than when I lived in Canada)
Dan

-- 
Dan York, CISSP, Director of Emerging Communication Technology
Office of the CTO    Voxeo Corporation     dyork(_at_)voxeo(_dot_)com
Phone: +1-407-455-5859  Skype: danyork  http://www.voxeo.com
Blogs: http://blogs.voxeo.com  http://www.disruptivetelephony.com

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