Why not do this for the entire meeting ? In fact, why not do it for
the entire meeting even if
there isn't a plenary outage ?
Regards
Marshall
On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:47 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
Good idea, I will be happy to work on that session and I’m sure
other folks from the EDU team will like the idea.
Regards,
Jordi
De: Ed Juskevicius <edj(_at_)nortel(_dot_)com>
Responder a: <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Fecha: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:16:59 -0500
Para: Dan York <dyork(_at_)voxeo(_dot_)com>
CC: <iaoc(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>, <iesg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>,
<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Conversación: Let's look at it from an IETF newbie's perspective...
Re: IPv4 Outage Planned for IETF 71 Plenary
Asunto: RE: Let's look at it from an IETF newbie's perspective...
Re: IPv4 Outage Planned for IETF 71 Plenary
What if someone took the initiative to organize a new "newbie
training" session on Sunday in Philadelphia, entitled something
like "getting your laptop ready for the planned IPv4 outage
experiment on Wednesday night" ?
Would that reduce the potentially negative perspectives that
newbies would take home after the meeting?
Just a thought ...
Regards,
Ed Juskevicius
edj(_at_)nortel(_dot_)com
From: Dan York [mailto:dyork(_at_)voxeo(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:54 PM
To: iaoc(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; iesg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Let's look at it from an IETF newbie's perspective... Re:
IPv4 Outage Planned for IETF 71 Plenary
I have resisted adding anything to this debate about the IPv4
outage because people have already stated many of the good points.
I particularly agreed with the points made that from a PR point-of-
view this was not a great idea.
Let me, though, add another perspective. What about all the
newbies? What are they going to do during this time?
At IETF 70, there was a question raised in one of the plenaries
asking "How many of you are here for the first time?" and a
significant number of hands went up. So let's look at this
proposed IPv4 outage *during the plenary* from their perspective.
Now, these newcomers may or may not have been subscribed to IETF
mailing lists. They may or may not have attended the Sunday "intro
to IETF for newcomers" session. They may or may not in fact be
technical folks. They are probably still trying to figure out how
all this works and why these people are humming, etc.
So now we go into one of the plenary sessions and it is announced
that "we will now shut down IPv4 and use only IPv6". The newcomer
notices that:
1. A good percentage of the audience now dive into their laptops
and become engrossed in diagnosing how their system works with
IPv6. Side conversations are starting everywhere and occasional
shouts of "Aha!" emerge from random groups.
2. Another percentage gets up and leaves in search of cookies.
3. Some percentage who missed reading the emails are suddenly upset
because they lost their IPv4 connectivity.
4. Some percentage pops in their EVDO/EDGE/whatever cards and
continues along as they were before doing their work and completely
ignoring the plenary speakers.
5. Some percentage never showed up at the plenary because they went
to join Richard Shockey at a local steak house.
6. Non-technical users or others who did not subscribe to IETF
mailing lists are sitting there dumbfounded with a deer-caught-in-
the-headlights look wondering what the heck is going on and if this
has anything to do with the hums.
7. NO ONE is paying attention to the speaker(s) in front of the
room during this part of the plenary.
Now maybe the newcomer is all excited about IPv6 and so plunges
into the technical troubleshooting. Maybe they go look for cookies
or steak. Maybe they sit there dumb-founded. Probably they are
left wondering what the point of this IETF "plenary" session really
was.
I don't dispute that such an exercise could be an interesting
experiment in IPv6 connectivity (and one in which I would join),
although in many cases I think we can already know the outcome. I
just question the wisdom of doing it during the *plenary*. It
would seem to me to be a great exercise to do at some other point
during the week when the people who care can attend and identify
issues, work through them, etc. Or we do as Ted suggested and just
run an entire event with only IPv6 wireless. (and count how many
people are using EVDO/EDGE cards!)
It goes back to a more fundamental question - what is the purpose
of the plenary? What information do we want to get across to
attendees to the session? (And if we *do* plan an IPv4 outage,
what is going to be talked about during the time of the outage?)
My 2 cents, (now worth less than when I lived in Canada)
Dan
--
Dan York, CISSP, Director of Emerging Communication Technology
Office of the CTO Voxeo Corporation dyork(_at_)voxeo(_dot_)com
Phone: +1-407-455-5859 Skype: danyork http://www.voxeo.com
Blogs: http://blogs.voxeo.com http://www.disruptivetelephony.com
Bring your web applications to the phone.
Find out how at http://evolution.voxeo.com
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
**********************************************
The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org
Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 !
http://www.ipv6day.org
This electronic message contains information which may be
privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for
the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the
intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
distribution or use of the contents of this information, including
attached files, is prohibited.
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf