On 9/21/2010 1:44 AM, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote:
On Sep 20, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
One of the problems I have seen emerge on many IETF mailing lists is the
habit of fisking.
Please clarify what you mean by fisking.
By fisking I mean responding to a post line by line *while reading it for
the first time*.
Thanks. And why is this a bad thing, in your view?
I seem to be reading an increasing number of posts on various lists where it
is very clear to me that the poster did not bother to read the entire
message before starting their reply.
Perhaps they're just very busy people? Are you too ignorant to have thought
of that?
The real issue here is that this is a mailing list and synchronization
of messages is nearly impossible through the IETF lists as they exist.
As a result of this really stupid, stone-age methodology any number of
issues including this one arise.
The really pompous issue here for IETF management to address is why they
and the rest of the "Idiots" as you call them above want this to
continue when something as stupid as a LINKEDIN WG would satisfy most
all of the WG issues. Hell even using something like Wordpress would be
better that what is here now.
But you also have to realize that the Professional Standards Lifers -
those people who make Standards their commercial business - dont want
this to change. They want things to stay just like they are to protect
this aspect of their employment and in this day and age its really
understandable - unethical and pretty slimy in my personal opinion, but
I think that of most people who make their business that of creating
standards and blocking others, which is something rampant here in the IETF.
In particular I have read rather a lot of people starting off by accusing
their opponent of being ignorant of issues that their opponent actually
states only a few paragraphs further on.
Reading ahead is hard, you can't expect everyone to do it. Many of us are
too busy and important to take the time to compose a message carefully, so it
makes sense to require everyone else to take longer to read our messages.
Yes - too busy to actually participate - what an amazing realization...
Traditionally, top-posting (or bottom posting) has been discouraged in favor
of responding line by line. I think it is time to reverse that preference.
You can't tell me what to do; that's what the Nazis did. You suck.
In particular I find that arguments are often less combative and somewhat
shorter
Is that a crack about my height? I dare you to say it to my face at the next
IETF.
in mediums where people are forced to restate the issue they are objecting
to in their own words.
In all seriousness, forcing any particular approach is the real issue. I
can't imagine how it would be accomplished. What I'd really like to force
people to do is be more thoughtful and restrained; if they did that, it
wouldn't much matter what approach they took to replies. -- Nathaniel
PS for the humor impaired -- only my last paragraph was intended to be
serious. -- nsb
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3148 - Release Date: 09/20/10
10:04:00
--
//-----------------------------------------------------------------
This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based
on this message or any information herein. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message.
Thank you for your cooperation.
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf