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Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

2013-03-12 10:25:49

Le 2013-03-12 à 11:19, Mary Barnes 
<mary(_dot_)ietf(_dot_)barnes(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> a écrit :

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Michael StJohns 
<mstjohns(_at_)comcast(_dot_)net> wrote:
At 07:56 AM 3/12/2013, Dan Harkins wrote:
While these studies are interesting and thought provoking, I think it is
wrong, and very dangerous, to use these studies to justify blanket
statements about intelligence, group or otherwise.

I'm laughing a bit about this thread.  For example, there's also 
"substantial evidence" that young women and young men do better in gender 
segregated schools because the women's IQs plunge due to primping and 
displaying and men's IQs plunge due to testosterone if they're kept 
together.  Unfortunately, there's also "substantial evidence" that doing 
things this way can lead to some socialization issues (where both groups 
tend to have warped views of the members of the other groups).  (I myself 
doubt both versions of the "substantial evidence")
[MB] I too find your response and some others laughable.  I would
agree that some of your statements with regards to all boys and girls
schools are wrong, however, there is indeed research highlighting that
girls do better in all girls schools due the fact that they are given
the attention that often goes to the boys in math and science classes.
The rest I  is untrue based on my experiences, but I would certainly
welcome someone pointing out research supporting your statements.
Both my sons have gone to or go to all boys schools (since first
grade).  Their girlfriends go to all girls schools. There is no
socialization issues in general. That all said, my sons' school has
some of the geekiest kids in the DFW area, so it is likely that there
may be *slightly* more issues with socialization than the average
public school.   [/MB]

I think we are going out of scope of the problem we are trying to address.

Marc.



Seriously - diversity is generally good.  I think we all get that.  Going 
off and trying to support that general statement with (Dan's words, but I 
think I agree) "cherry picked" data isn't going to advance that cause much.
[MB] The data isn't cherry picked - there has been *lots* of research
on this topic over the past decade (and even those previous).  Such
studies are doubted because I am sure they are not of any interest to
the folks that suggest they don't exist. So, these wouldn't have been
on your radar.   Not surprising, those that are doubting that IETF has
any issue with diversity are folks that aren't in the minority- it's
really hard to understand an issue if you haven't dealt with it
yourself.  There's lots of research showing lots of bias in our
society - the fact that many have never chosen to read any of it does
not mean it doesn't exist.  [/MB]

Mike




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