On 6/11/2013 5:25 AM, Dave Cridland wrote:
We want understanding, of course, but I think requiring Russ to
demonstrate that by writing a paragraph or six on the finer points of
the proposal would be daft.
That's the problem with special-case exceptions, such as requiring less
work by an august personage. It reduces to a cult of personality and it
doesn't scale. For an organizational culture of the type the IETF
expresses, that doesn't fit. The opinions of people IETF management
positions are not supposed to automatically have more weight in
determining the specifics of our specifications; they are supposed to
make their case, just like everyone else.
We try to distinguish between comment when wearing a formal IETF hat
versus without a hat. So it's not the IETF Chair making the comment,
it's "merely" a well-known personage.
It's easy to give special rights to such folk, such as not requiring
them to offer the substance behind their statement, but it actually has
a pretty insidious effect. It's gets us used to pro-forma postings; it
gets us relying on a few folk to sway things; it gets us to count rather
than think.
If the politicking is from multiple organizations who all want to
implement and deploy, then I'm all in favour...
Pete Resnick has been working on a careful formulation of what the IETF
means when it talks about 'rough consensus'. My own interpretation of
what he's developing -- and I want to stress this is me speaking, not me
speaking for Pete -- is that consensus is a combination of both numbers
and substance. The mere fact that "almost everyone" is in favor of
something can't be enough. What is also required is that the arguments
of objectors must have inadequately persuasive substance. One voice
with a really solid concern, which withstands independent review, needs
to be able to upset an overwhelming agreement.
So no, the fact that the politicking is from multiple organizations
needs to be insufficient.
We also sometimes have drafts that have had little working group
activity.
...
Perhaps having a shepherd-style write up included in the last call
announcement? (Or available via a URL there).
Perhaps something like that, yeah.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net