On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Adrian Farrel
<adrian(_at_)olddog(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk> wrote:
My point, of course, is not to disparage those with medical conditions, or
even those with philosophical/religious convictions.****
** **
Google shows me a supermarket within 1km of the venue in Dublin. I walked
to one while I was there. I also caught the free shuttle to down-town
Dublin where I saw several shops.
[MB] The market within walking distance was poorly stocked when I went
there. The only thing I found that I could possibly eat was canned
vegetables. Yes, I did take the shuttle to the city at night for dinner,
but that didn't solve the lunch issue at all and the speciality food
markets weren't open that late. Did you subsist on the food that you
bought at the supermarket or did you partake of the food that you could eat
that was offered at the hotel buffet? [/MB]
****
** **
I know folk who travel with suitcases of special food.
[MB] Sure. And, in many cases we are violating local laws by bringing food
into the country. Most of the food I carry with me is nuts, pumpkin seeds,
dried fruit and some snack bars. All of those things would be confiscated
if I declared them as they have been when I have been searched and they
have found them. I asked someone to bring a packaged food product from
Stockholm to me when we were meeting in the US. It got confiscated. [/MB]
****
** **
It is hard.****
We should do what we can to be accommodating.****
It should be one of the factors we consider in selecting/briefing a venue.
****
** **
It should not be an over-riding consideration.
[MB] This is the very reason I wrote this document - being able to eat
SHOULD be an over-riding consideration for meetings. That's a basic human
requirement for survival. Certainly, most of us won't die if we have to
subsist on nuts, seeds and dried fruit, canned veggies, etc during an IETF
meeting. But, most of us will not function well without proper nutrition,
somewhat equivalent to what we are used to on a daily basis. While, at
this point, I might benefit from some fasting, I would never choose a week
where I am working 12-16 hours a day to do so. [/MB]
****
** **
Adrian****
** **
*From:* Mary Barnes [mailto:mary(_dot_)h(_dot_)barnes(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com]
*Sent:* 16 July 2013 20:49
*To:* <adrian(_at_)olddog(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk>
*Cc:* John C Klensin;
<draft-barnes-healthy-food(_at_)tools(_dot_)ietf(_dot_)org>; <
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
*Subject:* Re: I-D Action: draft-barnes-healthy-food-07.txt****
** **
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Adrian Farrel
<adrian(_at_)olddog(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk>
wrote:****
Personally, I will strongly try to be vegetarian, but eat meat
rather than starve (a situation that arises when travelling).
****
if a venue is chosen that forces you (or me or others) into
a "meat or starve" or, much worse, "eat something severely
damaging to health or beliefs or starve" situation, is that
really an acceptable venue?****
Yes, it is.
If a venue is inconvenient or uncomfortable for a small percentage of
"regular"
IETF participants, that does not make it a poor choice of venue.****
****
[MB] This is the exact reason I had some stats in the doc previously as
it's not as small a percentage as you think. Also, as the document
highlights, in cases of medical conditions, one might consider this to
violate the American Disability Act in the US. Celiac disease, for
example, is considered an "invisible" disability in the US. One can debate
whether or not IETF/ISOC must comply with the American Disability Act, but
as I have posited IETF claims to be an open organization so I would think
they would want the meetings to be accessible to all, which means ensuring
there is food readily available to accommodate those with dietary
restrictions.****
** **
The example of your situation is a matter of personal choice. For some of
us it can be a matter of life or death (e.g., peanut allergies). [/MB]***
*
** **
We might as well go back to the debate about location: only a venue that
is a
convenient 10 minutes from my home is really a suitable venue.
I venture that "starve" is never a real outcome, but "go to a supermarket"
or
"bring food in your luggage" are alternatives that need some planning and
are a
small inconvenience.****
[MB] I already responded to this one, but I'll go ahead again, because
this attitude is the reason why I wrote this document after Dublin. There
was no supermarket near the venue at all, thus that wasn't possible. I did
the right thing and checked out the hotel restaurants on the Sunday before
the meeting started and found they could easily accommodate my GF diet.
However, at Monday lunchtime we could not order off the menu and were given
something like 3 choices of entrees. The staff serving the food had no
idea about preparation. Folks that are vegan/vegetarian/kosher couldn't
even eat the french fries because they couldn't be certain whether they
were cooked in a meat based oil or vegetable oil. I have celiac and thus
I cannot eat anything unless I have a very high level of confidence that it
is gluten free - my reaction can be extremely severe and at it's mildest,
it's like having a miserable 24 hour flu. [/MB]****
Adrian****