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Richard Shockey
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From: ietf <ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org> on behalf of Miles Fidelman
<mfidelman(_at_)meetinghouse(_dot_)net>
Date: Friday, May 13, 2016 at 9:38 PM
To: <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Subject: Re: The ecosystem is moving
Back to the original point, for a moment:
Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer(_at_)nic(_dot_)fr> Wed, 11 May 2016 12:58
UTCShow header
A very interesting paper (I said "intesresting", I didn't say I
agree!) on open networks where independant nodes with independently
developed programs interoperate thanks to standards. The author claims
closed and centralized systemes are better, because they allow faster
evolution (he uses security as an example).
Many IETF cases mentioned (XMPP, IPv6, email...)
https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/
My long-standing observation is that the climate has changed. In the early
days, there was both "demand pull" for new protocols, and an environment that
encouraged (and to an extent) funded new protocol development and deployment.
Since then, the climate has changed:
- it's very hard to get a new protocol into the ecosystem (there are quite a
few useful protocols, that simply are not supported)
RS> Like security protocols? Dare I say it its harder and harder to get any
work done in standards bodies and the IETF in particular? We have met the
enemy and it is us… are we the new ITU? That is another thread altogether.
- the drivers have changed from greater interconnection and interoperability
(back to the original ARPANET drivers of resource sharing and collaboration) -
to "can it be monetized?"
RS> Duh! Time to market. That said genuine interconnection and
interoperability still does have value. Both the internet and the legacy as
well as evolving global SIP voice network proves that. There is a strong
counter argument that long term value in global communications, namely
persistent revenue streams, are built on globally interoperable services. ATT,
DT, BT, FT, Bell, NTT etc have not gone out of business, though they endlessly
whine about losing some of the value models. We can send them some cheese to
go with their whining.
In the short term Layer 7 silos can work, especially in closed user
communities, think instant messaging in the financial community and secure
public safety applications as you correctly point out but at global scale you
hit a wall eventually.
It's simply a lot easier to deploy a new SaaS, behind an API, and to charge for
it, than it is to deploy new protocol infrastructure.
RS> +1 That is certainly what is going on in Real-time Voice Services. Think
Skype in its original deployment. I noted that the piece called out the reuse
of phone numbers as persistent global identifiers for service delivery. Oh
Internet domains .. they are soooooo 90’s J
I totally get that. TN’s are globally unique they are ubiquitous,
linguistically neutral and people have proven that if you use them correctly
you can make a boat load of money. WhatsApp? Wow use the phone numbers and
the existing national regulatory number allocation regime. Centralize your
application ..collect 8 Billion dollars and do not pass GO. Works for me!
Why didn’t I think of that?
If I had 5 euro/dollars/pounds for every time I’ve heard “Phone numbers are
stupid” I be sitting in the sun in St. Barts or the South of France with a cold
glass of Champagne and would have resigned from this list years ago.
The exception seems to be when there is a strong "forcing function" - applied
top-down. DoD Force Transformation & the Command & Control Research Program
drove new operational models into the military environment - into networks,
into system specifications, and into doctrine. Examples that come to mind:
- XMPP is widely used for tactical chat
- DIS is widely used to support distributed simulation and training - including
deployment of persistent training federations
- Tactical Data Links (e.g., Link-16) are all over the place
- DDS is widely used for sensor-weapon linkages
Also of note - NNTP remains widely used on the SIPRNET, at the top of the MDMP
(Military Decision Making Process)
Another example that comes to mind is the Digital Libraries Initiative - which
forced a lot standards and protocols for library system interoperability.
IMHO, without such forcing functions, the natural tendency is toward
centralized, proprietary services - and back toward a world of walled gardens.
Even in areas where we have a measure of widespread interoperability - such as
calendaring - we see things like Google pulling iCal support - making it ever
so much more tedious to schedule a meeting.
RS> Excellent observation and spot on with the issue with iCal. Don’t get me
started with trying to sync Outlook for Mac with the rest of my Apple device
infrastructure. Gurrrrr.
Miles Fidelman
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra