Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100

We may need a new supply of the old "multilingual" tee shirts in
Chicago.   Pete, still have the original templates?  :-(

   john

--On Monday, January 30, 2017 03:08 +0800 James Seng
<james(_dot_)seng(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> wrote:

> I rescind my previous comment that the scenario I painted is
> rhetorical.
>
> None of our US fellow IETFers here have any moral authority to
> talk about "inclusive" ever again.
>
> -James Seng
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 5:44 AM, James Seng
> <james(_dot_)seng(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> wrote:
>
> > Since after 9-11, things have change a lot for United
> > States[1].
> >
> > Especially for TSA, I remember going to SFO the first time
> > after 9-11, it took me 2 hours just to clear the security and
> > I missed my flight. I also remember pre 9-11, I could get
> > into US for less than 15-20mins.
> >
> > Now, for my American friends who pay in the price in time,
> > let me tell you what we non-American citizen has to do to get
> > into US after 9-11. We have been tagged, photographed,
> > fingerprinted, all our 10 fingers every time we have to enter
> > US. We have been systematically profiled, often by racial or
> > nationality, and some of us have to go through enhanced
> > body-to-body search everytime we cross security. I was put in
> > a "Muslim" basket been a Malaysian for a while so ... And we
> > have to do it with a smile because if any of us pull of a
> > stunt like Aaron Tobey[2], we could be denied our entry and
> > possibility forever.
> >
> > My wife complains that the over the last decade I have put on
> > a lot of weight and asked me to check my photos.
> > Unfortunately, I don't like selfie nor do I like to take
> > pictures of myself. But I told her not to worry as TSA has a
> > complete profile of me becoming fat over the years.
> >
> > Today, we all saw a US President may-to-be calling up to
> > forbid Muslim to enter US, to build walls to prevent people
> > from the south, who threaten to get even tougher to
> > foreigners.
> >
> > So by the same principle that Jeff is advocate, that we hold
> > IETF meeting where "law declares some people less valid", I
> > prognosticate we may no longer able to hold our meetings in
> > US.
> >
> > [1]
> > http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-thing
> > s-have-changed-2001-2093156
> >
> > [2]
> > http://dailylounge.com/the-daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa
> >
> > ps: This is rhetorical to put any doubt in rest. I love US
> > even though getting there is still a pain for me.
> >
> > -James Seng
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:34 PM, MH Michael Hammer (5304)
> > <MHammer(_at_)ag(_dot_)com> wrote:
> >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of
> > > > Thompson, Jeff Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 3:55 AM
> > > > To: Dan Harkins
> > > > Cc: recentattendees(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; Ietf@Ietf. Org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore
> > > > go/no go for IETF 100
> > > >
> > > > On 2016/5/26, 21:11:51, "Recentattendees on behalf of Dan
> > > > Harkins" <recentattendees-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org on behalf of
> > > > dharkins(_at_)lounge(_dot_)org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >  I would also like to suggest that the ability of
> > > > >  certain members to bring their family on a vacation
> > > > > that coincides with an IETF should not be a governing
> > > > > factor in venue selection. Many people like to launder a
> > > > > business trip into a family vacation (myself
> > > > > included!) but that's not why the IETF exists and it
> > > > > should have no bearing on where we meet.
> > > > So then, the IETF policy would read ³The IETF may hold
> > > > meetings in
> > > countries
> > > > where the law declares some people less valid. If you are
> > > > such a
> > > person, then
> > > > the IETF recommends that to avoid trouble with the law you
> > > > should hide
> > > who
> > > > you are, including not bringing your family.²
> > > >
> > > > Is this the organization that the IETF is going to be?
> > > >
> > > > - Jeff
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > Is there any country in the world that meets the standard
> > > your comment implies should be the IETF policy? Is this a
> > > case of perfection being the enemy of good? Perhaps it is a
> > > case of perfection being the enemy of reality. I don't know
> > > what IETF policy should be but I do recognize that there are
> > > very real limitations that constrain choices. I'll also
> > > point out that the choices made will constrain the choices
> > > of participants. I'm not advocating for any particular
> > > choice by the IETF with regard to meeting locations.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Recentattendees mailing list
> > > Recentattendees(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/recentattendees
> >
> >
> > --
> > -James Seng