Re: mailbox format(s)

On 27 feb 2004, at 0:26, Bruce Lilly wrote:

> > I quite strongly agree with Iljitsch on this one.
> > Having a well-defined format that can be used for files
> > is very helpful. The biggest advantage would be that it
> > makes it easier to switch MUAs.
> If the mailbox is accessed via a standard network protocol such as
> POP or IMAP, it is trivially easy to switch MUAs.
Not quite. Then the new MUA must download all the messages again from 
the server. Note that ISPs often don't allow customers to use their 
mailbox for long-term storage, so in practice this doesn't work at all 
for many users. The alternative would be to run a local IMAP-like 
service, which seems excessive and still doesn't allow the use of more 
than one program for downloading mail, just more than one program for 
displaying it.
> A single format might not scale
> well; what works for an organization with plenty of resources
> might not work at all for a guy with a PDA or cell phone (and
> vice versa).
I have more than 300 MB worth of mail on my server. My laptop keeps a 
complete copy of this, but I don't think that makes sense for a PDA to 
do the same: just caching the most recently read messages would be a 
better choice.
> > The format could come in single-message and multiple-message (like
> > current mbox) variants. The later should just be a concatenation
> > of the former, or otherwise a very trivial transform.
> Been there, done that. Never again.  A flat file just doesn't
> work well with even a modest number of messages.
It can work if you build an index and don't go around removing message 
from the middle of the file too often.
> Cyrus IMAP stores one
> message per file, with a database for metadata (access lists,
> etc.), and it's quite fast.
Maybe for random access, but if you need to access all messages you're 
bound to be slower. Also, the file system overhead makes this a pretty 
bad idea.
What I imagine is a system where messages are stored in a binary 
container format such as IFF/AIFF/ASF/AVI when they are created. A 
typical message would start with a header section (which includes the 
msgid), then a body section consisting of one or more text and/or 
binary parts and finally an optional signature section. These are 
concatenated and the whole thing is flagged as immutable in transit. 
The container format makes sure that it's easy to skip ahead to the 
part of the message that is of interest at any particular time. Then 
there are three other parts: an end-to-end control section, a local 
control section and any information left by intermediate systems. These 
sections can either be kept in a separate place and be linked to the 
main section through the use of the msgid, or they can simply be tacked 
on at the end of it.
A mailbox can then simply consist of a number of these messages that 
may or may not be concatenated into larger files. The control sections 
can be split off or copied to a different location and be used as an 
index if this is desired. But it's not really necessary to do that as 
searching (on header fields) through a large mailbox is fairly 
efficient: read the header, skip the body, read the control sections, 
next message. (The length of each section is specified in the container 
format so there is no need to parse the whole body and no 8bit 
cleanliness issues.)
I think both having one message per file and having all messages in one 
file isn't the best idea, grouping messages in files of a few hundred 
kB or several MB is probably better. We can add some padding after any 
embedded control/logging sections (which can just as easily be trailers 
as headers) so that when those sections grow, space can be borrowed 
from the padding sections.
Now obviously this is just one idea and I'm not saying an eventual 
solution must be like this, I'm just trying to show there are more more 
ways to skin a cat.
> > On the way out, not worth caring about too much
> > (as Iljitsch said, nobody should be forced to use
> > a format).
> If it won't work for some systems (remember that bit about
> heterogeneity), what is the point of having a standard?
Standards improve quality, because they usually eliminate inferior ways 
of achieving a result. And often vendors that implement their own 
solution also support the standard to some extent in order to be 
compatible.