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Re: [spf-discuss] (SOLVED) SPF blocking e-mails coming from an E-card service server

2007-04-30 01:20:48
Dan/e-card sites could generate a key and email address and request you send
the first email to register.  The ecard could use SPF and whatever else to
verify that the email is not forged.  Then it would send an email with a
confirm link or whatever they would normally do.

Wouldn't stop people from signing you up on the web for the signup mail.

Our web site describes best practices for web generated mail.  AFAICT, Dan
has done all we asked and even donated code to make it easier for others to
do the same.  What he's gotten in return is a large ration of grief.

Personally I'm very dissapointed in the community's reaction to Dan trying
to do the right thing.

If we need a best practice on validation of web entered e-mail addresses,
let's write it up and get some consensus.  Let's quit berating Dan for not
doing stuff we haven't even bothered to write down.

Scott K

Hello.

Thanks Scott for defending me, that's appreciated. No problems, sometimes we all slide in some eagerness too quickly.
Forgiveness is also a best practice to be learnt and applied ;-)
No problems Guy, you were not seen as offending me at all yourself. I have understood your constructive suggestion about displaying only the cookie on the web page, and requesting the user to send the e-mail first. It is an option which would avoid a service to be used as a spam box.

Nevertheless, I think that the question of how we should register or how we should do to avoid having a mail sent to anyone we want is to my opinion sliding outside of the first aim about the sample code's security. The sample code is only handling bounces, it is not how you register people, how you let them send an e-card. This is something on top, that the ecard provider have to solve. This is why I believe we should leave others get involved on that question, and I don't think this is an SPF community issue. The reason is that just any service can be used as a spam box this way, even the SPF mailing list when we request a subscription. In that thought, these ecard services are not more dangerous than all mailing lists as for their potential spam abuse. I think we are too keen on security issue where there is no need to see such a thing, unless there are real abuses, and we are going too far in this concern IMHO.

Anyhow, here are my conclusions about the sample code.

1. The code does what it is intended for, and does it well: it allows anybody to produce a service which sends an SPF compatible e-mail on behalf of someone else, by forcing the sender's email address and keeping the Return-Path address of the sending server, like suggested on the SPF technical page, and helps to do so by providing a bouncing system which takes care to handle these bounces and report in a _very_ secure way to the sender that its destination address failed if it was the case (because combined with the unique random ecard ID checked against the database). This code cannot be abused by spammers.

2. The security of this code is not involved, but it is transferred to the ecard/other service generator which must take care of the verification of the real sender's address. As for the forging capability of hties system, and thus the spam abuse potential, he can do this with Guy's suggestion of a cookie displayed on the page, which the user should copy and paste in a new e-mail he sends to a predefined e-mail address. This would probably be the highest security system. A second level would be a captcha with each sent e-cards would already be something quite secure, because automated systems would not be able to use the service at all, even if one person could still harm anyone else by hand. The third level is that there is no captcha, but there are other limitations to the service which prevents spammers to use the service as they would like. These limitations are notably to check the sender's IP address against an online IP spam blacklist. I believe that the third level is already enough, and we could further discuss about this. This third level is better or equal to the level of security everyone uses on the web, like for mailing lists, 'send this page to a friend', and so forth. I don't believe that it is something which really causes spam dangers on the internet, due to the described limitations of the service.

Thanks to all again. I think we have been able to construct something which I hope is the right thing.

Regards,
Daniel

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