spf-discuss
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Re: [spf-discuss] mail users with multiple identities

2010-01-20 15:47:20
At 19:43 20/01/2010  Wednesday, Barry Say wrote:
Thanks for the replies.



The problem I encountered was that the user had changed his ISP provider but 
is still using his old email address. So that an e-mail apparently from 
tiscali.co.uk is coming from a bt.com server. Truly an SPF failure and 
entirely beyond my control.

yup unless tiscali provide a standard submission server to external users {many 
isp's do especially ones publishing spf} but if they don't its a simple  case 
of tiscalli dosn't permit him to use the address, so he's got to cease using it.

I can indeed find out the mail servers which are being used to send 
northumbrianpipers.org.uk e-mails and add them to my SPF records. That was 
what I had thought of doing, but I wondered if there was a simpler way.

yup running a submission server to handle northumbrianpipers.org.uk or finding 
a provider willing to host imap/pop + submission and mmoving ail there

I conclude that there is a real difficulty on the horizon as SPF rolls out. 
Until now, I for one haven't really cared which smtp server I used for 
outgoing mail. With multiple e-mail accounts, I have simply used the smtp 
server over which I have most control.

this isn't just an spf issue its way worse for DKIM and other protocol users
its simply a long time since providers allowing "any" address outbound from 
their ip's via their relay was unscalable
{in the past it was presumed that their dialup/dsl/wfi customers would be 
advised/disconnected/fixed within a reasonable time of their bot-infested 
machine sending forged-from spam out via those relays}
this has long ago proved impossible {most isp's have no way of even contacting 
or determining their own users from the connecting ip}

so back in 1998 the solution was proposed and largely became standard that 
outgoing clients connect to/send via an authenticated submission server on port 
587 {usually with tls}, so that spam can be traced to ID that can be traced to 
at least one valid address to report problem to, disconnect id etc.

so the mean time between abuse report and abuse cessation gets shorter

the side benifits of this mode is

A most isp's can block all outgoing port 25 from all non-mailservers with zero 
negative impact
B domains providing/using submission can implement strict SPF and DKIM policies
C isp's like ourselves can implement stricter checks on smtp submissions 
    {such as correct ID/PASSWD only functions from the ip ranges the user 
specifies, 
    to limit potential ID theft [many bots now take auth details and share them 
with the botnet] 
    {they can specify 0.0.0.0/0} but most limit it to their work/home providers
    also correct ID/Pass only allows the user to set envelope-sender to their 
pre-set list of address'

    any correct id/pass from disallowed ip-space or incorrect 
envelope-sender-address' causes a notification to user and admin,
    if user doesn't respond by changing their {potentially stolen} password or 
updating their ip/envelope filters, 
    or contacting the admin to explain, the submission privileges of the 
account get yanked 
    {as always logging into the pop/imap and pasword/spamfilters/and submission 
ip/envelope filters admin site is still working}

I now find that both the e-mail programs I use, Thunderbird and Pegasus now 
change their SMTP settings with identity

yup because clients have largely supported this model since the start

and I am just trying to get a working outlook express to see how that works 
(sigh!)

its the only one that was slow to adopt tls support
so for years people used to offer 587 smtp-submission+tls
and 467 smtp-submission-with always on ssl {for old outlooks}

but few feel the need to continue supporting these old outlooks now their are 
versions available that work with TLS


Thanks a lot

Barry





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