Usefullness of statistics depends directly on how they were gathered.
I think what we need is to see exactly what is being proposed as far as
how the data will be gathered, I'm not too happy to have this point left
to some specific organizations, I'm fine with them conducting surveys but
only if we know exactly how they will be do it.
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Sauer, Damon wrote:
I am trying to turn this back into a productive thread. I think it is
important and I don't want to cause it to die because of a disagreement.
Believe me, I am *really* trying to understand what it is that we are
measuring and for what purpose.
Maybe if you break your thoughts down for me, I can understand what it is
that we intend to accomplish.
As I see it, these measurements are in part, useful as a analysis of the
advantage or disadvantage of different types of anti-spam measures. Or are
we even planning on breaking up the data in such components? If not, why
not? The data is available.
Since just *having* anti-spam measures is a way to deter spam, I think that
showing these numbers is important.
How many spammers give up spamming a host just because they have
anti-spam... and why?
Any other suggestions on how we can uniquely analyze the data?
Regards,
Damon
-----Original Message-----
From: Sauer, Damon
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:36 PM
To: 'Alan DeKok'; asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: [unproductive arguement]RE: [Asrg] Requirements for gathering
statistics
"Sauer, Damon" <Damon(_dot_)Sauer(_at_)BellSouth(_dot_)com> wrote:
Regardless of how the information is "meant" to be used. Any spammer
can point at these numbers and say- 50% of our junk is getting through
<best
Homer voice> Whoo Hoo!.
Do we really care about the opinions of spammers?
--- "Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer."
I believe that you are not looking at control sets in the correct
light. In ANY scientific study you MUST have control sets or the
information
is invalid.
Nonsense. Data collection doesn't require control sets.
Data *analysis* may use control sets, but even that depends on how
you analyze the data. There is no control set required to analyze the
data gathered from asking "how much spam is received by your domain?"
I think I'll stop here. I *completely* disagree with your opinions
on data collection and analysis methodology. I'll appeal to
authority, and let my background as a published nuclear physicist
stand for itself.
---- I believe that here we can agree to disagree.. being a published
(anonymously) postmaster, (not sure what nuclear physics has to do with
spam, but I am sure that it has its applications) I know that just by being
"protected" by anti-spam systems that some spammers just give up. My
internal numbers clearly show that 1/3 of all my spam traffic dropped off as
soon as "announced" myself as a site protected by certain anti-spam
measures. I am talking on the order of hundreds of thousands a day. Gone.
I choose to not argue the point further, maybe I am just misunderstanding
what you intend to measure with the numbers. I usually tend to start
measuring from the beginning of the ruler rather than somewhere in the
middle, but then of course, I don't build nuclear power plants and the such.
Regards,
Damon
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