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Re: [Asrg] Whitelisting on Message-ID (Was Turing Test ...) honeypot plug

2003-04-07 09:24:38
At 08:38 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:

afraid of what?


Getting whacked.  Wasting a spam run.  Getting exposed.


rules require cooperation or policemen. What's your policeman here?

Right now the policeman is the spammer's ISP - give the ISP evidence of abuse by the spammer and the ISP just about has to act. The honeypot operators tell the ISPs of the abuse - the ISPs act.

Later the ISPs could largely skip the honeypot step. My honeypot was used as the SMTP test IP for hundreds to thousands of open proxy tests in the telesp.br domain. How hard is it for telesp.br to see the connections made from all over their space, all to port 25 of the same IP in Wisconsin? How hard is it for telesp.br to see the proxy connections to all their IPs, all (probably) from the same IP elsewhere? Even if from a group of IPs the pattern should scream out. If the ISP bothers to look. They don't have to watch the traffic to their entire space: they could do subspaces, one at a time.

The advantage of using honeypots may be that the operator of the honeypot IP has an inherent right to monitor traffic to that IP, to examine it. If the operator sees abuse traffic he has a right to report that abuse to the appropriate ISP, who can then use that evidence to enforce its own TOS. The ISP may hve no right to actually examine traffic (look at packets) absent evidence of abuse. I suspect the ISP has the right to watch for patterns of traffic that are characteristic of abuse and to follow through on those (contact the sender, ask for the right of examining packets. Even if he refuses the sender knows he is not getting away with it completely undetected.)


(given that this issue is a much smaller and less devastating issue than that of the root kiddies that own machines before the install process is finished, and given how little progress has been made at slowing that down, I don't see how the anti-spam world is going to make better progress here than the entire security world has...)

Partly the key is that the abuse is so small and is always the same. It takes no particular skill to intercept port 25 traffic to an IP that should have no port 25 traffic. Same for 1080, etc. It's defensive script-kiddy tactics. It can be less skilled than script-kiddy tactics: download this, run this. Bang! You are a honeypot operator. Jackpot can report to a central server - configure Jackpot to run that way and a whole flock of honeypots can be run by people that only vaguely understand they are helping fight spam.

As to the security world, they seem to emphasize making a system immune to being rooted (as opposed to making those that try to root systems feel pain.) Causing pain here is a much harder task, real honeypots (and honeynets) are useful there but in this problem they are dealing at least some with hackers who are crafting their solutions as they go, who are finding new vulnerabilities. Even there I'd guess that ISPs could be more creative in detecting attempts, particularly from script kiddies: if there's a new exploit for a vulnerability on port xyz then watching traffic to port xyz should reveal anyone who is scanning through a space looking for a vulnerable port. Do ISPs do that or do they just run around warning people to secure port xyz (if even that)? It's no surprise that there's little progress.

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