I didn't define the explicit side as that's pretty easy to define. It's
the implicit definition that I felt was difficult.
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Shein [mailto:bzs(_at_)world(_dot_)std(_dot_)com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:10 PM
To: Peter Kay
Cc: Barry Shein; kent(_at_)songbird(_dot_)com; Hallam-Baker, Phillip;
Asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: RE: [Asrg] Another criteria for "what is spam"...
Ok, and if you get overloaded with spam then it's only because you're
too poor and unimportant to have a secretary sort through your mail
for you.
Anyhow, you ignored the part about defining what a legitimate
solicitation is, is buying an airline ticket sufficient? etc.
-b
On June 4, 2003 at 16:43 peter(_at_)titankey(_dot_)com (Peter Kay) wrote:
> What you say may be true but its way out of scope here. If your
> subscribers sign up for email solicitations and that overloads your
> infrastructure, you've definitely got some cost recovery to deal
with
> but we don't have a UBE problem.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Barry Shein [mailto:bzs(_at_)world(_dot_)std(_dot_)com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 4:39 PM
> > To: Peter Kay
> > Cc: kent(_at_)songbird(_dot_)com; Hallam-Baker, Phillip;
Asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
> > Subject: RE: [Asrg] Another criteria for "what is spam"...
> >
> >
> >
> > On June 4, 2003 at 15:53 peter(_at_)titankey(_dot_)com (Peter Kay)
> > wrote: > Yes but we can't define bulk mailing as spamming.
> > But we CAN define that > UNSOLICITED bulk email is spamming.
> >
> > Actually, I'm not that uncomfortable with defining any "bulk
> > mailing" as spamming.
> >
> > I realize I won't get consensus on that here.
> >
> > But then again few of you are ISPs expected to just come up
> > with the money for resources for every blitz by every fortune
> > 1,000,000 company who decides to unload on their (let's say
> > for argument's sake) legitimate mailing list hourly.
> >
> > Special fares at United Airlines? Delta? Wham! Here comes
> > 10,000 msgs you frequent flyers!
> >
> > Campbell's has a new recipe they want to share? Open wide!
> >
> > NY Times, Wall St Journal, Motley Fool, Salon, etc want to
> > send their daily headlines and advertising payload? K'POW!
> >
> > And don't tell me subscriber fees are supposed to cover this.
> > There's almost total disconnect as marketeers get savvier
> > about exploiting this medium.
> >
> > That's like wishing your property taxes covered the postage
> > for junk paper mail. What a stupid idea that would be! Or
> > that there should be no postage paid by magazines because you
> > subscribed to them.
> >
> > This exercise is kinda like watching legislators make law,
> > the OTHER guy's use of tax money is a waste, but MY use of
> > tax money is essential to civilization!
> >
> > Replace "tax money" with "ISP's resources" and you've got my
> > point of view.
> >
> > This is why, without per-message fees, this system is doomed.
> > It's just a matter of time.
> >
> > What we're doing here might postpone doom for a while by
> > freeing up resources for blessed floods of bull****, and
> > those are mostly my (and
> > kindred) resources being freed so I have an interest in that
> > happening. But in my opinion not too far in the future the
> > current e-mail architecture will just collapse.
> >
> > One reason why is because the day you stop or minimize spam
> > the so-called "legitimate" marketers from those fortune
> > 1,000,000 companies will realize that their message will now
> > get through and will no longer be confused with those of
> > total con-men and scams.
> >
> > And those marketeers actually have money to spend. P&G spends
> > $3B a year on advertising, etc. Need I go on?
> >
> > They're just waiting on the sidelines for you to build a
> > nice, level road for them to drive on, for free.
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Barry Shein
> >
> > Software Tool & Die | bzs(_at_)TheWorld(_dot_)com |
> > http://www.TheWorld.com
> > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice:
> > 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
> > The World | Public Access Internet | Since
> > 1989 *oo*
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs(_at_)TheWorld(_dot_)com |
http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login:
617-739-WRLD
The World | Public Access Internet | Since 1989
*oo*
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