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Re: [Asrg] 6. Proposals - AMTP (rev 01) - MPC

2003-10-07 01:35:50
At 2:14 AM -0400 2003/10/07, Ken Hirsch wrote:

 So they trust 95% of IP addresses, instead of the 0.1% that they should be
 trusting..

Not true. Many of those IP addresses are perfectly trustable. Even the ones in DSL/dial-up space. They're used by responsible people who run reasonably secure MTAs, or they don't run MTAs at all.

The problem is that you don't know which ones are trustable and which ones are not. Nor do you know whether this address which was trustable fifteen minutes ago is still trustable now.

Worst, there is no feasible way of determining whether or not a particular IP address is trustable, except to watch its behaviour and see if it does anything untrustworthy. Even then, you'd have to make sure that the IP address wasn't spoofed, or that the connection wasn't hijacked, etc....


        This is a fundamentally unsolvable problem.

 Where is the analysis that it won't scale?  It seems to me that the
 current system where AOL has to block 2 billion spams a day is the
 one that has high overhead.

The blocking of 2 billion spams a day is not scalable. Trust me, I worked there, and I helped create the first generation of the anti-spam controls that were used. We ended up having to write our own MTA in order to get the level of control we needed.

However, this issue is not relevant to the subject of whether or not they decide to trust a given set of IP addresses, or refuse to trust a different set of IP addresses. The concept as a whole is not scalable, regardless of which trust model is employed.

 But I won't give up on authentication, because without it all the
 other proposals are a joke.  The criminals will run their own name
 servers and abuse any consent-framework.

Right, and they'll be perfectly happy to be completely authenticated and identifiable. And they'll exist in other countries where you can't touch them legally, and you're right back where you were.

Most DDoS attacks these days don't even bother with spoofing source IP addresses, because it's not necessary. I see no difference here.

 If authentication must be DNS-based, so be it, but it must be POSITIVE,
 white-list based authentication, not blacklists, and authentication
 against a trusted third party, not against name servers of unknown
 control.

Authentication does not help solve the problem. However, towards the end that so many people are focussed on the issue of authentication as opposed to the end result, I agree that it must be done as a white-list based method.

--
Brad Knowles, <brad(_dot_)knowles(_at_)skynet(_dot_)be>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+
!w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++)
tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++)

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