Markus Stumpf <maex-lists-spam-ietf-asrg(_at_)Space(_dot_)Net> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 09:06:44PM -0500, Seth Breidbart wrote:
Who is supposed to determine that "successful passing of the
criteria"?
The process of being added to the list is indepedent of successfully
passing the terms listed.
So what is the list supposed to list? Everybody who asks? What use
would that be?
Or would it have a notation as to whether or not the list entry
actually passed the criteria? If so, how would that differ from not
even listing those who didn't (other than it being less likely to be
sued for not mentioning X than for saying "X didn't pass the
criteria")?
If you think you can provide a better list, go ahead. Nobody is
claiming to own the concept of a list.
I didn't say it is a bad list.
I said such kind of lists are a bad thing in general. So why do you
think I'd be interested in operating "a better one"?
Why do you think such lists are bad? Many people find them useful.
If you think you can find the most clever person in the world (so that
nobody else can ever find loopholes in her terms), I wish you luck in
the search.
Isn't that a funny thing?
They're going to give reputation for something they can't define?
Isn't it like "company XYZ is one of the good guys, whatever they might
be doing".
Isn't that exactly how reputation works in the real world?
When X tells me "Y has characteristic A" I filter that through (my
belief in) X's credibility, X's ability to judge characteristic A, and
other knowledge or beliefs I have about Y.
How much time and money per complaint are you willing to spend to
investigate these cases?
As much as they feel is warranted.
No, they claim giving reputation. So if they want someone to believe them
they have to post rules they'll abide to.
They did. You're objecting to their rules because you don't feel
they're explicit enough.
Just like VeriSign, Thawte, Geotrust and all the other are giving
some kind of reputation: they have checked a list of facts and they
certify that these facts are correct according to their revision.
Given that several of those are _known_ to lie, of what value is their
certification?
At the moment the IADB warrants nothing.
If you don't find their list _useful to you_ then don't use it.
If you want the ability to sue them should they be wrong about a
listing, too bad.
But there is nothing to be done better, because, as I said, IMHO
such kind of lists are an error in general.
What makes them "an error in general"? Once again, to some people,
they're _useful_.
Any service is dependent on its local law.
No it is not.
Really? There's some service in some location that can ignore its
local law? Can you give some examples?
If you don't want to use
it, then don't. Nobody says you have to.
If you want to use it do it, where is your problem? But tell us why you
want to use it?
I might find that there is a correlation (probably negative) between
their listings and spammers.
Why? You're making assumptions about the way mailserver admins will
operate, which are completely unwarranted. We have no way of knowing
how they'll act.
Don't say "we" if you mean "I". The experience of block lists gave
enough examples, so for /me/ I am knowing enough. And I know enough
so called "mailserver admins" to know how they operate.
If they all act the same way you clearly don't know very many of them.
I suppose you need to buy accounts with every ISP in the world so you
can have the Markus.Stumpf@<every ISP> just in case somebody else
might get that userid and say silly things from it, too.
No, because Markus.Stumpf@<any ISP> does not have the same legal implications
trademarks (and not using them) have. And Joe Luser will not
try to reach me just by typing "Markus.Stumpf@<any ISP>" as an email
address, but zillions of clueless journalists have told the Joe Lusers
out there for nearly ten years now that the DNS is a search engine and
Joe Luser is naive enough to think that using porsche.biz (or
porsche.ctld) will really get him where he thinks.
Zillions of clueless journalists and other idiots who believe them do
not make for intelligent policies.
Then the services running from that country will lose a lot of
credibility elsewhere in the world, and their competitors in other
countries will gain (relative) credibility.
Most Joe Luser Mailadmins will not even notice.
Then their customers lose out. Not my problem.
With all that contra arguments of yours where is your argument "pro"
such a list?
It might be useful. I don't know yet; it isn't fully operating, and
I'm not using it.
Seth
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