On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Matthew Elvey wrote:
=-=-=-=-=-=
3)Dean & FUSSP.
Dean Anderson of av8 seems best largely ignored,
given odd evidence suggesting his views are that DNSBLs are terribly,
horribly, drastically, irretreivably bad and other ranting:
That DNSBLs are revenge-oriented is a court-established fact. Alan Brown
of ORBS lost three lawsuits as an immediate result. MAPS was successfully
sued for blocking a non-spam site. SPEWS is specifically organized to
remain anonymous so that it can't be sued. Others have "reorganized" in
foriegn counties to avoid suits (ORDB, ORBL) Some have organized with
college students with no assets as operators to be immune from lawsuits.
That the DNSBLs are very nearly universally abuse-oriented is also long
and well-established by history. A frequent plaint on spam lists is
"Where can I find a good blacklist?" because there aren't any good
blacklists. If they provided spam solutions of any sort, we wouldn't be
here.
See www.iadl.org for some history on abusive blacklist operators. See also
www.dotcomeon.com for volumes of information and press coverage on
blacklist operators and abuse committed by blacklist operators.
http://vesuvio.ipv6.tilab.com/pipermail/ietf_censored/2004-May/006714.html
(and
http://vesuvio.ipv6.tilab.com/pipermail/ietf_censored/2004-June/006933.html
There is nothing particularly incredible about thest two above. I've
outlined the information theory in detail, and have discussed it privately
with PH.D's who've written seminal papers in the field of information
theory. So far, no one has been able to find any flaw in the analysis,
though it is still a ways from a formal proof.
Speaking of ranting:
Registrant:
The Elvey.com IT Consulting Group
3042 SacramentoGD ST, Suite 04. Illegally harvested
from godaddy DB if mail received at this address
San Francisco, California 94115
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: ELVEY.COM
Created on: 21-Mar-99
Expires on: 21-Mar-05
Last Updated on: 14-Mar-04
Administrative Contact:
Elvey, Matthew
EmailToThisAddressNotFromGodaddyIsSpamAndIsExpresslyForbiddenWithoutPayingAFee
ToTEP.ByUsingThisAddressYouAgreeToTheseTermsOfUsage.YouAgreeToUseAllowOrEnableItsUseOnlyUnderTheTerm
sOfwww(_dot_)elvey(_dot_)comSlashspamoff(_dot_)htm(_at_)me2004(_dot_)fastmail(_dot_)fm
The Elvey.com IT Consulting Group
3042 SacramentoGD ST, Suite 04. Illegally harvested
from godaddy DB if mail received at this address
San Francisco, California 94115
United States
(415) 555-1212 will provide the number Fax --
Technical Contact:
Elvey, Matthew
EmailToThisAddressNotFromGodaddyIsSpamAndIsExpresslyForbiddenWithoutPayingAFee
ToTEP.ByUsingThisAddressYouAgreeToTheseTermsOfUsage.YouAgreeToUseAllowOrEnableItsUseOnlyUnderTheTerm
sOfwww(_dot_)elvey(_dot_)comSlashspamoff(_dot_)htm(_at_)me2004(_dot_)fastmail(_dot_)fm
The Elvey.com IT Consulting Group
3042 SacramentoGD ST, Suite 04. Illegally harvested
from godaddy DB if mail received at this address
San Francisco, California 94115
United States
(415) 555-1212 will provide the number Fax --
This guy thinks his address is illegally harvested if he receives Postal
mail at his godaddy Postal Address. That's pretty fringe.
Another hoot:
http://www.elvey.com/Spam%20Offer%20by%20Matthew%20Elvey.htm
And yet another that shows Mr. Elvey:
http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/am-info/Week-of-Mon-20001106/004270.html
Here's a quote of Mr. Elvey:
"Hmm. The owner of a company* that developed a version of Emacs once
told me that GNU Emacs had tons of (unauthorized) source code from his
company's product in it. I don't know what the merits were (he
appeared to be an upstanding guy!) but the point I want to make is
that he decided that there was nothing his company could do about it.
*which I don't think it would be appropriate to name in a public forum
like this"
and the results of #whois 130.105.36.66 and
And just what about the results of this query discredits me? I suppose
you are unaware that the Open Software Foundation developed open systems
(Motif, OSF/1, DCE, Unix98, etc) and joined with the X Consortium (maybe
you've heard of the X Window System), and X/Open (XPG/4, SQL, etc) to form
The Open Group. I worked for the OSF for many years, and they are a
customer now. They have made me authoritative for 130.105/16.
Or perhaps you are just associated with the liars over at SORBS.NET, who
claim that 130.105/16 is stolen. They also claim that 198.3.136/21 is
stolen, too. But those are lies, and are just two reasons why DNSBLs are
(as you say) "terribly, horribly, drastically, irretreivably bad". I've
never said this. I've just said they engaged in revenge and are
untrustworthy, and that's been shown in many cases.
http://moensted.dk/spam/messages/20020716-dean+av8.com.txt ); forgive me
if I'm skeptical about his statements.
For those who didn't bother, the site above has advertised a relay for
abuse for a long time. I even took that IP out of production server
(leaving a relay to collect the abuse generated by this "Dr. Moensted"'s
site.) The URL referenced is a complaint about their unauthorized relay
testing, in which they sent 32 messages with fake headers, such as From
postmaster(_at_)av8(_dot_)net, etc. This URL is rather obscure, and probably
indicates an association between Mr. Elvey and the "Dr. Moensted", who is
actually just a kid, not a doctor of any sort. We've gotten thousands of
messages as a result of the "anti-spammers" false advertising.
So, forgive me if I'm skeptical of Mr. Elvey's statements.
I am confident an implemented long term solution that will keep inboxes
functional and nearly spam-free is in the not-so-distant future.
Vixie said this in 1996. We're still waiting.
http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html
It's not like a perpetual motion machine: un-inventable. Plus,
Information Theory is cool and fun. I've found it useful for pointing
me in the right direction for handling this plague.
Actually, "un-inventable" is exactly what information theory says about
it. And it's no coincidence that thermodynamics was invented to dispel
the (concrete, as in spend money) proposals for building perpetual motion
machines. Just like the FUSSP proposals today. And its no coincidence that
information theory developed from thermodynamics, to figure out the same
sorts of questions.
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