ietf-mxcomp
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Re: Complaint on personal attack by Matthew Elvey

2004-11-26 04:11:30

The IETF left the list operational at the request of members. So it is
still run 'under the IETF', and still under the IETF rules. The IETF and
ISOC rules apply to all IETF related activities, whether at meetings, bofs
or on IETF lists.

The list is however, not part of a working group, and thus cannot approve
RFCs.

                --Dean

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, william(at)elan.net wrote:


Dean,

Without commenting on the details of your complaint may I remind you that 
this is no longer IETF WG mail list and so no longer operates under IETF 
rules. If you don't like something here, you should either contact mail 
list administrator (in private preferably) or simply unsubscribe.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Dean Anderson wrote:


First, I didn't participate in the FTC conference Mr Elvey seems to be
reporting on in his message, nor have I even made any comments on it, yet.  
Why I would be attacked in a report about an FTC conference is beyond
reason. Mr. Elvey is making a purely malicious attack on me in violation
of IETF and ISOC rules.


The following message by Matthew Elvey includes an inappropriate personal
attack in violation of the following sections of the ISOC Code of Conduct:
http://www.isoc.org/members/codeconduct.shtml

7  Only offer or claim to offer opinions or services that lie within the
   member's actual knowledge or competence.

8  In the case of financial or material conflict between personal and
   professional interests, or between two professional interests, declare
   this conflict to all interested parties and if appropriate in public.

9  Respect the generally accepted norms of Internet etiquette for human
   communications, especially by avoiding communications that are false or
   are likely to be considered as discourteous, objectionable, malicious,
   unwanted, or causing unjustified loss of prestige. Avoid fraudulent or
   deceptive statements.

11 Treat all users and colleagues fairly and on equal terms.


And the message violates the following sections of the IETF Guidelines for
Conduct RFC 3184:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3184.txt?number=3184

1. IETF participants extend respect and courtesy to their colleagues
      at all times.

      IETF participants come from diverse origins and backgrounds and
      are equipped with multiple capabilities and ideals.  Regardless of
      these individual differences, participants treat their colleagues
      with respect as persons--especially when it is difficult to agree
      with them.  Seeing from another's point of view is often
      revealing, even when it fails to be compelling.
      English is the de facto language of the IETF, but it is not the
      native language of many IETF participants.  Native English
      speakers attempt to speak clearly and a bit slowly and to limit
      the use of slang in order to accommodate the needs of all
      listeners.

   2. IETF participants develop and test ideas impartially, without
      finding fault with the colleague proposing the idea.

      We dispute ideas by using reasoned argument, rather than through
      intimidation or ad hominem attack.  Or, said in a somewhat more
      IETF-like way:

            "Reduce the heat and increase the light"



=========================================================================
Message-ID: <419EE9B5(_dot_)6030704(_at_)elvey(_dot_)com>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:52:37 -0500
From: Matthew Elvey <matthew(_at_)elvey(_dot_)com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: MXCOMP <ietf-mxcomp(_at_)imc(_dot_)org>
Subject: FTC stuff 0) Lies 1)Yahoo & DK. 2)GoDaddy DNS & SPF & CSV.  
3)Dean  & FUSSP. 4)Testing 5)EFF, Anonymity.

[...]
=-=-=-=-=-=
3)Dean & FUSSP.
Dean Anderson of av8 seems best largely ignored,
given odd evidence suggesting his views are that DNSBLs are terribly, 
horribly, drastically, irretreivably bad and other ranting:
http://vesuvio.ipv6.tilab.com/pipermail/ietf_censored/2004-May/006714.html 
(and
http://vesuvio.ipv6.tilab.com/pipermail/ietf_censored/2004-June/006933.html 
and the results of #whois 130.105.36.66 and
http://moensted.dk/spam/messages/20020716-dean+av8.com.txt ); forgive me 
if I'm skeptical about his statements.
I am confident an implemented long term solution that will keep inboxes 
functional and nearly spam-free is in the not-so-distant future.  It's 
not like a perpetual motion machine: un-inventable.  Plus, Information 
Theory is cool and fun.  I've found it useful for pointing me in the 
right direction for handling this plague.




-- 
Av8 Internet   Prepared to pay a premium for better service?
www.av8.net         faster, more reliable, better service
617 344 9000   



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