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Re: IETF mission boundaries (Re: IESG proposed statement on the IETF mission )

2003-10-16 13:49:53
From: Eric Rosen <erosen(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>

That is wrong or at least a gross overstatement. 

If  that's  what  you think,  I  invite  you  to  make  a list  of  all  the
IETF-standardized protocols and explain how  they are all (or even more than
50% of them) needed to make the Internet work.

There's a progression here:
  1. ad hoc network interoperability group forms.
  2. it has some success and gains some fame.
  3. it is besieged by people eager to borrow its printing press
  4. it is besieged by people who know everything about everything and
    have a duty to write or at least control all standards on
    everything including what people perversions do in the privacy
    of their own networks.

I've been complaining about #3 for many years.  Examples of #4 include
some of the more vigorous combatants in the IPv6 site local arena
and the notion that notion that nothing is out of scope.


There have been many things that the IETF has chosen to step away from but
that  ran  and  run  over  the Internet.   Some  graphics  standards  come
immediately to my  mind ... Those graphics standards were  kept out of the
IETF not  because the  working groups involved  thought they  didn't think
they were experts, but because the subject was out of scope for the IETF." 

I'm not  familiar with this particular  case, but I don't  see why protocols
for distributing graphics would be thought  to fall outside the scope of the
IETF, any more  than protocols for distributing voice  or video.  Of course,
graphics standards  that have nothing  do with distribution of  the graphics
over IP would be out of scope.

The example I'm thinking about involved predecessors to OpenGL.
People who know about network stuff know enough to stuff bits into
wires, but that's the earier part of things like OpenGL, Microsoft's
alternative whose name eludes me, JPEG, MPEG, and so forth.


No committee is ever able to limit itself on grounds of insufficient
expertise.  

Now, there  is a  gross overstatement!  For  everyone who  proclaims himself
(rightly or  wrongly) to be  an expert on  some topic, there are  always two
other people who claim  that he is clueless. 

The other two base their claims on their own greater expertise and
wouldn't dream of suggesting that they are not well suited for
standardizing whatever it is.

                                          It's not uncommon  for a WG to
refuse  to  pick up  a  topic  because the  consensus  is  that the  topic's
proponents are clueless.  

Please name an example of such a case.  I have seen WG chairs and
others use brute force and out-of-scope arguments to halt nonsense,
but I've never seen "we don't know enough" work.  Often the brutal WG
chairs say they don't think the WG knows enough, but it's the scope
arguments that carry the day.


Sheesh!--next you'll be telling us that you never heard the phrase
"out of scope" before last week.


Vernon Schryver    vjs(_at_)rhyolite(_dot_)com



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