On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, grenville armitage wrote:
I'm not sure I see the ambiguities you assert.
I think this is because you use the "narrow interpretation" (e.g., the
actual network deployment) of the terms -- which is fine. My problem
with that, though, is that people can have a "broad interpretation"
(e.g., anything regarding network deployment, including giving advice)
as well -- and the terms used are chosen such that the reader does not
know which one is correct. This creates confusion.
Pekka Savola wrote:
[..]
- These are so overly broad statements that they're close to unusable
UNLESS you believe IETF is just a rubber-stamping standards
organization. For example, what constitutes "deploying networks"?
IETF certainly shouldn't be go digging fibers, or give advice on how
to dig fibers.
But as the vast evidence makes it clear, most ISPs do a very lousy job
of deploying networks *properly*, causing harm to the Internet as a
whole. Wouldn't it be somewhat in the IETF's business to try to give
advice (using BCP and Info documents) how to do it better?
I can't see your problem here. Clearly we know what it means to
actually deploy a network. Saying that the IETF does not deploy
networks in no way inhibits the IETF from giving guidance to good
(or purported to be good) engineering practise and trade-offs.
Right, actual deployment (digging fibers, purchasing links, installing
routers, configuring the network equipment, making network plans,
etc.) doesn't seem to be in IETF's purview. But it is not clear with
the above "broad" vs "strict" interpretation, whether "deploying
networks" includes advice on some aspects of deploying networks as
well.
A statement like "we don't deploy networks because others do it
better" implies that the others know how to deploy networks better,
and do deploy them better, and the IETF does not have expertise for
that. And if the others know how to deploy the network better, is the
IETF the right body, with expertise, to give advice on how to do it?
Knowing how to do something, and actually doing it, are closely tied
into each other.
With a broad interpretation, both could be excluded. With a narrow
interpretation, maybe only actually doing it could be excluded (which
would be natural as the IETF participants are not volunteers to go
deploying networks... :-).
[[ the similar arguments apply to building products and regulating the
Internet, so I don't repeat them again. ]]
--
Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings