Hi John,
I actually (myself) have no problem to have my name published, my complain was
somehow an indirect one ... because what is surprising is that when we had this
type of discussion several times, no solution or decision is publicly provided.
That's really annoying. We aren't here volunteering with our time and resources
to provide our inputs and then being ignored, at least not most of us, I guess.
So the openness of the process is already broken not taking decisions after the
discussions :-(
Also is interesting that even when I typed it correctly, is now incorrectly
mistyped in the attendee list, what just adds distrust to the process looking
manual and prone to errors.
I also agree with the need of openness in the process, BUT the IETF has not any
right to infringe the laws/regulations even if the openness is so important.
Just imagine that a given country decides to block because something like this
(not complying the local laws, that in this case are very common at least as I
know in Europe), the www.ietf.org or even the mail exploders on that domain. It
will be much worst !
Despite this, I think you provide a very good solution for this with your
suggested boilerplate. Probably this is the minimum legal one that we should
have. We like it or not, we live in a world with rules, that we must accept (or
change). In part the problem is probably that there is not a clear legal
situation for a non-legal organization ... but that's another history.
The other good example is the IPv6 issue. As I recall, I saw (and even
participated) in that debate a couple of times. Today I see no objective reason
for not doing that, but we don't have a decision on that. Is that good ? Is
this what we expect for an open process ?
Regards,
Jordi
----- Original Message -----
From: "John C Klensin" <john-ietf(_at_)jck(_dot_)com>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es>
Cc: <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: respect privacy please !
Jordi,
This has been discussed several times before. While I share
your discomfort, IETF is not some "conference" you might be
attending. It is very difficult to claim that one has an open
standards process when some participants are permitted attend
meetings and, potentially, influence decisions while being
hidden or anonymous. We do not discourage people from lurking
quietly on mailing lists. But I think that, as soon as anyone
more actively participates -- whether by posting to mailing
lists or attending meetings (especially since the latter is a
qualification for Nomcom membership that must be publicly
verifiable) -- then I think desires for privacy have to yield to
the importance of trust in the IETF community and its processes.
As with IPR disclosures, if one can't accept the rules, the best
option is to decide to not play.
Out of curiosity, would you feed better about this if the
boilerplate you need to page through to register said,
explicitly, "if you don't want your name to be made public as a
registrant and participant, please don't register or attend" or
"by registering, you consent..."? I don't have any control over
the text or decisions but assume that, if lots of people wanted
such language to eliminate any misunderstandings about whether
you had consented, the IESG and Secretariat would probably agree
to add it.
At least the Secretariat no longer feels a need to publish email
addresses with the list of registrants :-(
best,
john
p.s. Note that the above is purely a process and moral position.
There is, I'm sure, a legal one that parallels it, but I'd
rather not go there --and set off a wave of amateur lawyering--
if we can help it.
--On Friday, 21 May, 2004 13:24 +0200 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
<jordi(_dot_)palet(_at_)consulintel(_dot_)es> wrote:
Hi,
I've already raised this some time ago, same as other people
did, but I still see my name being published, w/o my consent,
in the list of attendees.
This is not acceptable, we should have the option to choose if
we want to have our name published or not when we do the
registration.
I will also like to get some response about the time frame to
get the IETF sites IPv6-enabled. If there is any problem for
doing that, I already volunteered to host a mirror.
Regards,
Jordi
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