Spencer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Spencer Dawkins" <spencer(_at_)mcsr-labs(_dot_)org>
To: <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:08 AM
Subject: Please make the madness stop (was: a whole bunch of flames)
Hoping against hope that this might be the last post in the thread, but
one
never knows...
I'm following up to Carl's note, but I'm speaking to the community.
You mean to this Mailing List - and only this Mailing List - you are NOT
speaking to the IETF Community or to those who will be effected outside this
WG by these actions are you?
Why is that Spencer?
IMHO, fighting the messenger is not the proper solution to the
problem.
The messenger accused the IETF chair of lying.
No I DIDNT. I said we based on the process have no idea what to believe. If
you are saying "THAT BECAUSE SOMEONE IS THE IETF THAT THEY WOULDNT LIE IF IT
SUITED THEM" I would laugh and ask what you were high on.
That is totally
inappropriate behavior.
Fraudulently accusing someone of something to allow you to harass them is
inappropriate behavior.
Carl
We are not very far away from the NomCom 2006-2007 call for nominations.
That means a couple of things.
First, continued flaming away is wasted. Andrew and the NomCom will have
more opportunity to influence things than any of the rest of us have BY
POSTING TO THIS LIST. The entire community will have an opportunity to
provide NomCom feedback on Brian, half of the IESG, half of the IAB, and
one
of the two IAOC members. That feedback will have far more impact on who
serves, and does not serve, in IETF leadership than anything anyone posts
to
this mailing list.
Second, I agree with Carl that the level of reasoned discourse in these
threads has achieved a totally inappropriate level. If you are hoping to
replace some or all of the current leadership, it would be a lot easier to
do this with a large and healthy pool of nominees who are willing to
serve,
and flaming away at a high rate on the current incumbents will likely
shrink
that candidate pool. Please don't do that.
You mean that you are against adding culpability to the processes of
selection and want them to remain essentially secret or hidden.
Why is that Spencer?
If one or more members of the leadership needs to be replaced, and NomCom
returns them because no one else was willing to sign up for the current
level of attacks and abuse, we all lost.
No - actually what you are seeing are the flaws in the IETF's Management
Recruiting Processes. The facts that there are not three people waiting to
volunteer for each position is indicitive of issues with the IETF and its
value to the world.
If one or more members of the leadership needs to be returned, and they
are
replaced because they were unwilling to be called liars, we all lost.
If the system is designed by this brilliant bunch of people such that it
matters whether someone in managment is telling the truth or not - then we
are lost. The point is that the IETF and its processes are supposed to be
above impropriety or the possibility of it and they are not.
If NomCom had the largest slate of qualified nominees who were willing to
serve that we've ever had - both incumbents and new nominees - that would
be
a really good ending to this conversation. Could everyone focus their
abundant energies in that direction?
No Spencer - I am more interested in focusing my energies in reforming the
IETF so that it really is what it claims today that it is. The problem
Spencer is that you and many others have put us in a position where we just
dont know who or what to believe and many of those individuals are involved
in the IETF and IPR WG's and they dont want outside criticism of their
actions therein.
Otherwise the Management of the IETF would be laughing and yelling back at
me "OK Glassey Bring it on..."
Thanks,
Spencer, who is violating a commitment to myself that I would not post on
process topics...
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